BLI Announces Non-PRR USRA Heavy and Light Mikado

[chessie system fan]

BUT . . . it is a Heavy Mike.  If you need a Light Mike, the Kato isn't it.  That leaves the choice of the MRC/MP (if you can find the one you want) or the new BLI.
John C.

True, sort of.  Let us recall that the MRC/MP 2-8-2 isn't really a real USRA mike.  It's a 2-8-2 with a USRA pacific boiler slapped onto it.  They are close, but not quite the same.    This will be the first true USRA light mike since the original Atlas/RR model from fifty years ago.  I hope the BLI model does well.

[mike_lawyer]

How do you tell which run is which ?  Particular when buying on line.

The Kato item numbers ending in 0200 are the second run and beyond.  That is the best way to tell.  Also, the second and third releases had the Kato knuckle coupler on the tender.  Any with the rapido on the tender is most likely from the first run.

You can also tell by the road and number.  I have a printout of the road and engine numbers for the second and third releases.  This info can be found online.

[Chris333]

And they painted the fire and smoke boxes on the newer ones.

[jdcolombo]

John, I’m curious about your dislike of the Paragon 3’s (no criticism intended; just genuinely curious). I don’t own any steam P3 versions (I sent the M1 back) but I do like the Paragon 3 in diesels; I think the F units are very good with their many layers of sound effects. I have the E6’s also and enjoy the sound effects immensely. Brake squeal, manual notch up and down, the “double 8” sound volume controls... Is the steam P3 not up to par? Frankly I like the current steam Tsunami’s better than ESUs, and I enjoy having the subtle (and not so subtle) variety in steam sounds.
I understand the desire to standardize for speed matching and performance continuity, and for motor control, ESU’s are hard to beat. And as for continuity and consistency, well this “upgrade” just blows it all up anyway. Just saying...
Thanks, Otto

Hi Otto.

The Paragon 3 is better than the 2, and I suppose my objection is really more BLI's speaker implementation than the decoder itself.  But the decoder is not very flexible in its technical adjustments.  The Paragon doesn't have any method for adjusting BEMF parameters nor for adjusting the chuff rate to better match the driver rotation.  Having said that, the Paragon 3 in the T-1 that I worked on seemed to have pretty good chuff-to-driver match, and was decently smooth-running at low speeds (though not as low as I'd really like, and as low as I can get with an ESU).  So it's not as flexible as the LokSound (which has two CV's for chuff matching and 4 different BEMF-tuning CV's) and doesn't have as good very-slow-speed performance.  I also wasn't impressed with either the quality of the open cocks sounds or the actual chuffs on the T-1, but maybe that was intentional: I don't know what a T-1 sounded like in real life (Is there any sound recording of an operational T-1?), so I shouldn't really complain - but I know I'd never be satisfied with those sounds coming from one of my Berks.

The speaker was awful, but that's not really a decoder issue.  I'm mostly miffed about the fact that I know that if I buy one of the Mikes, I'm paying $100 for a sound decoder/speaker that I consider inferior to what I'd install myself.

John C.

[Point353]

I'm mostly miffed about the fact that I know that if I buy one of the Mikes, I'm paying $100 for a sound decoder/speaker that I consider inferior to what I'd install myself.

Although it's apparently contrary to their business model, BLI should consider taking reservations/pre-orders for DCC-ready versions of their locos as a means to gauge the demand for that type of product.

[thomasjmdavis]

True, sort of.  Let us recall that the MRC/MP 2-8-2 isn't really a real USRA mike.  It's a 2-8-2 with a USRA pacific boiler slapped onto it.  They are close, but not quite the same.    This will be the first true USRA light mike since the original Atlas/RR model from fifty years ago.  I hope the BLI model does well.

I had both an Atlas/RR Pacific and Atlas/RR Mikado, and honestly my recollection is that the boilers were interchangeable and otherwise virtually identical.  or did Atlas use the Mikado boiler on both?  Or, am I confusing them in my memory with the HO Mantua Pacific and Mikado that I owned a decade earlier.....

[eric220]

Although it's apparently contrary to their business model, BLI should consider taking reservations/pre-orders for DCC-ready versions of their locos as a means to gauge the demand for that type of product.

After the decade plus M1 fiasco, I doubt asking for pre-orders will give them any kind of accurate gauge of demand, and I think they know that.

[Cajonpassfan]

Hi Otto.

The Paragon 3 is better than the 2, and I suppose my objection is really more BLI's speaker implementation than the decoder itself.  But the decoder is not very flexible in its technical adjustments.  The Paragon doesn't have any method for adjusting BEMF parameters nor for adjusting the chuff rate to better match the driver rotation.  Having said that, the Paragon 3 in the T-1 that I worked on seemed to have pretty good chuff-to-driver match, and was decently smooth-running at low speeds (though not as low as I'd really like, and as low as I can get with an ESU).  So it's not as flexible as the LokSound (which has two CV's for chuff matching and 4 different BEMF-tuning CV's) and doesn't have as good very-slow-speed performance.  I also wasn't impressed with either the quality of the open cocks sounds or the actual chuffs on the T-1, but maybe that was intentional: I don't know what a T-1 sounded like in real life (Is there any sound recording of an operational T-1?), so I shouldn't really complain - but I know I'd never be satisfied with those sounds coming from one of my Berks.

The speaker was awful, but that's not really a decoder issue.  I'm mostly miffed about the fact that I know that if I buy one of the Mikes, I'm paying $100 for a sound decoder/speaker that I consider inferior to what I'd install myself.

John C.

Hi John, and thank you for taking the time for a thorough explanation. I can respect that. Operation wise, ESU is hard to beat. But I suspect I’ll buy a light mike from BLI just for the sound variety... and yes, since their business model is all about sound I find their marginal “soundbox” implementation hard to fathom. But they are improving, so there is hope...and despite the moans and groans, people must be buying their stuff. Let’s hope this one is a winner so we can get more.
This talk about the USRA mikes made me realize I own one by Model Power, so I took it for a spin with a 17-car local up my 2.2% grades. Runs well, walked off with it. The tender pickups are so seventies, sound is so so, and I’m afraid to take off the boiler to rework it for a UP Harriman look... The running gear looks pretty darn good though.
We’ll have to wait and see what the BLI engines are like; I am not preordering this one.
Otto

[Point353]

After the decade plus M1 fiasco, I doubt asking for pre-orders will give them any kind of accurate gauge of demand, and I think they know that.

That was before BLI had established any sort of a track record for producing N scale locos.
Some were willing to take a gamble based solely upon BLI's HO products, but others thought those skills might not directly transfer and waited ... and waited.

[Mark5]

I like the current model, where they announce, and then make.  (no cancellations!)

[draskouasshat]

MAN, I didn't even have to post this time for things to go anit-SPF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring on the Santa Fe Steeeaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

Drasko

[chessie system fan]

I had both an Atlas/RR Pacific and Atlas/RR Mikado, and honestly my recollection is that the boilers were interchangeable and otherwise virtually identical.  or did Atlas use the Mikado boiler on both?

They are very close, but not the same.  The best place to see it is the boiler band in between the domes. It's closer to the rear in the 4-6-2. And you can also see that the 4-6-2 boiler has a shallower slope there too.

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/riv462.html

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/riv282.html

[ncbqguy]

The Atlas/Rivarossi/Con-Cor USRA Light Pacific and Light Mikado had their own correct boilers.   The Con-Cor tooled USRA Heavy Boiler was a USRA Heavy Mikado and was put on the same mechanisms as the USRA Light Pacific and Mikado.
The 625 USRA Light Mikados were originally allocated to 34 railroads.   Atlas / Rivarossi / Con-Cor and Model Power had the USRA Light Mikados.   
The next most "popular" USRA was the 0-6-0 Switcher with 255 going to 24 original owners. Bachmann could still surprise us and upgrade the trainset level USRA 0-6-0 into the Spectrum line. 
The 233 USRA Heavy Mikados went to 13 original owners.  Rivarossi / Con-Cor and Kato had the USRA Heavy Mikado.
The USRA 0-8-0 had 175 originals built for 22 roads but was the most common design becoming the defacto steam switcher with over 1200 copies.  Life-Like/Walthers produced a model.
The USRA Heavy 2-10-2 had 175 originals while the Light 2-10-2 had only 94 examples. Con-Cor had a version of the Heavy that had a good mechanism but a slightly "stretched" boiler.  Bachmann has a nice model of the Light.
The 81 USRA Light Pacifics only went to three roads while the 20 USRA Heavy Pacifics only went to a single railroad.  Atlas / Rivarossi / Con-Cor and Model Power had the Light and Con-Cor used their USRA Heavy Mikado shell for the Heavy and Revell / Rapido had a USRA Heavy Pacific as well.
The USRA Light Mountain had 47 built for 4 roads while the Heavy version had only 15 built for 2 roads.  Bachmann has recent models for both USRA Mountain types.
30 USRA 2-6-6-2 were built for 2 roads and 106 of the USRA 2-8-8-2s went to 3 roads.  Bachmann has produced the 2-6-6-2 model and Atlas and Life-Like once produced the 2-8-8-2.
The USRA locomotives represent the only "common" design that enjoyed wide use by many major railroads.   The Harriman "Common Standard" designs had some range but unfortunately were very limited in railroads that used them....CP/SP, UP, Aton, Erie and IC being the major ones.   Also,  while "standards", the Harrimans varied a bit even as-built, especially in tender design and had their appearance quickly heavily modified in service.   
In spite of incremental improvements the lingering design and detail deficiencies of the Model Power USRA locomotives have been well documented and many of the Rivarossi / Atlas / Con-Cor have succumbed to advanced age.   A current state of the art version of the USRA Light Mikado is overdue and BLI including a USRA Heavy Mikado as a logical extension of this USRA Mikado program replacing the now decades old Kato model should also be welcome if for no other reason than the incremental improvements in detail and the addition of roadnames that Kato would never release.
Charlie Vlk   

[randgust]

For those of us of a Santa Fe persuasion, just remember that Dirk at ATSFNscalemodels is out there, and if you want to take it to a better level that's an excellent place to start.   One 12K tender and I was sold.

And there's Shapeway parts out there that are ATSF specific including cabs, trucks, etc.   And Dirk is working on numberboards.   Depending on your level of comfort with detail, you can certainly 'flavor' a locomotive your way.   The things that make a locomotive unique to a railroad aren't quite as impossible to find as they used to be.   And don't forget that there's still a surprising amount of GHQ parts on Republic Locomotive Works pages.

You can gripe or you can build....  I like to focus on if it will actually run.    It would be nice if new N brass still was a valid approach, but it's not.  I do have to admire BLI for taking the bet that Kato won't rerun theirs anytime soon.   I have a love/hate of BLI, seems like everything of theirs I've tested on my layout has either derailed, stalled, or both, but I sure love to watch them at shows and will see how this one does. 

[draskouasshat]

For those of us of a Santa Fe persuasion, just remember that Dirk at ATSFNscalemodels is out there, and if you want to take it to a better level that's an excellent place to start.   One 12K tender and I was sold.

And there's Shapeway parts out there that are ATSF specific including cabs, trucks, etc.   And Dirk is working on numberboards.   Depending on your level of comfort with detail, you can certainly 'flavor' a locomotive your way.   The things that make a locomotive unique to a railroad aren't quite as impossible to find as they used to be.   And don't forget that there's still a surprising amount of GHQ parts on Republic Locomotive Works pages.

You can gripe or you can build....  I like to focus on if it will actually run.    It would be nice if new N brass still was a valid approach, but it's not.  I do have to admire BLI for taking the bet that Kato won't rerun theirs anytime soon.   I have a love/hate of BLI, seems like everything of theirs I've tested on my layout has either derailed, stalled, or both, but I sure love to watch them at shows and will see how this one does.

True, but its an F-ing joke that the Santa fe gets absolutely no announcements in regards to steam when UP, SP, NP, PRR, Milwaukee, D&RGW, and even the Clinchfield have one or MULTIPLE well running and detailed models under their belts.
For petes sakes, its the Santa fe. the railroad that sold n-scale in the beginning.

Drasko