Atlas Trainman 60' HW Passenger Cars officially announced

[mu26aeh]

"And we didn't get costing for the deco schemes until the past month, so there was no way any pricing should have been announced in February. "

@Atlas Paul,

Your gripe should not be with us, but with your own crew.  They had the pricing (and "Master Line") on the table at the Springfield show-

from Brian Bussey's message
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=41083.msg510784#msg510784

I don't think he has a gripe, he does mention in reply that he didn't know where info was gotten from for the sign

[thomasjmdavis]

Thanks mu27aeh.  I deleted my previous post.  Read through the thread too quick this morning and missed that you had included a link to the photos- so "asked and answered."

On the plus side, did catch @Atlas Paul reminding us that the obs is a single window car.  I have little use for it as an observation, but could see where 2 spiced together could make for an interesting coach, and also toying with the idea of spicing it with a baggage car, to get something like this-

[brokemoto]

I went upstairs to go to the bath tub, so after the bath (and after drying off thoroughly) I pulled out the CNJ passenger decals.  Tom's Model Trains sells the things, they are available in more than one scale, but not all sets are available in all scales.  There are two in N scale, the Railroad Roman and the later font.  Both will do club cars and coaches, only. 

Someone asked about the Blue Comet cars.  It appears that all three observation cars still exist.  I was trying to find the dimensions of them, but a quick search brought no information.  If I have time later, I might look more thoroughly. 

I am guessing that CNJ used the observation cars to haul passengers after it pulled the Blue Comet in 1941.  The sheet that Tom's sells with the later font has number sets for all three cars:  1178, 1179, 1169.  This would lead me to suspect that the railroad did, at some point, paint them Pullman green, letter them in the later font and use them to haul passengers on other trains.  In kater years,one of the cars did go into M of W service, one became an instruction car, or something like that and one became NJT #1 (or somebody's #1, it might not have been NJT, I would have to press my BACK button several times to look at it , again). 

I am not sure when the later font came in on CNJ.   The earliest photographs that I have seen of it have been on steam locomotives taken in 1947.  The earliest photographs that I have seen of it on passenger cars is 1953.  I would guess that CNJ did not paint out the Blue Comet  paint and lettering immediately.  The last Blue Comet ran in September, 1941, three months later, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, so likely wartime policies were in effect by the time that CNJ would have gotten around to repainting the cars.

The Railroad Roman decal set does contain some car names, but none of the names are of the three observation cars used on the Blue Comet, which suggests to me that they never received that lettering font after CNJ discontinued the train,

The cars look really nice and well-detailed.  Many of the manufacturers are upping the quality of even their basic lines.  I would suspect that if Atlas did do CNJ in a second run, it would do Pullman green, as no one sells a CNJ Pacific or camelback. 

I had assumed that the head end cars were based on CNJ prototypes, but now that I think about it, did CNJ have any full RPOs?  Now that I think about it, the only CNJ RPOs of which I have seen photographs are baggage/mail cars.

There is steam power out there lettered for ATSF and C&O from MP and B-mann, as well as MDC/Athearn if you update the 2-6-0 with some details.  I do not know of any Lackawanna steam out there, but there might be a road switcher or passenger F-unit lettered for Lackawanna.  I am aware of E-units, but they look pretty silly in front of shorty passenger cars (now, of course, someone will have a photograph of a CNW E-unit on the point of a train full of these cars).  Did Lackawanna have any passenger F-units or road switchers?  There are CNW diesels out there, that would work.  There was a shovel nosed Hudson from C-C lettered for CNW, but I do not know how it would look in front of these cars.

[coosvalley]

It seems like some of the factories fill parts orders out of what is leftover from production.  We do try to tell them what we need and why we need them, especially on a new item when we don't know what parts may get damaged through shipping or use.

We are meeting next week  with the managers of the factory that will be producing this car, so we will have the spare parts discussion with them in person.

Thanks for chiming in!..Despite some problems, Atlas has, in my book, the best parts selection, and I am thankful for it. I hope you can get parts supply problems ironed out with the factories.

  :ashat:As for my own personal parts request, SD-26 window sets!!!!!!..I can't finish my GP7/9 chop nose jobs without them!(I only mention it because I see some more SD26s are coming)

[peteski]

I don't think he has a gripe, he does mention in reply that he didn't know where info was gotten from for the sign

@Atlas Paul - the photographic evidence seems to indicate that it was Atlas itself that inadvertently started the Master Line rumor.

[Kisatchie]

Are you complaining about a product in a hobby that you no longer claim to participate in?

Yes, but not just model railroading. EVERYTHING! China is getting away with murder, flooding the US with products that should be made here, often illegally (steel and aluminum dumping, to name 2).


Hmm... a brewing trade
war...

[High Hood]

Will the 4 and 6 axle trucks be interchanable on these cars?

[Sokramiketes]

The cars were never intended as Master Line cars so I have no idea where the info from the sign came from.  And we didn't get costing for the deco schemes until the past month, so there was no way any pricing should have been announced in February.

Just blame the last guy to quit... CORY!?!?!

[Ngineer]

Which ones  are prototypical and which ones are stand-ins?

Were the prototypes built before the Micro-Trains heavyweight prototypes? (I'am asking because the Atlas heavyweights are shorter.)

The RPOs and baggage cars could be used in a mail express train which is good news. Right now, I am looking at the Fall 2006 issue of Classic Trains. On page 69 there is a CNW baggage car. The lettering is arranged in a different way though.

The Atlas Trainman RPO look very close to the one offered by Micro-Trains. Does anybody know if they are based on the same prototype?

   Javier

[jmlaboda - RIP]

I had assumed that the head end cars were based on CNJ prototypes,...

Not sure why such an assumption is being made since very clearly early on in this thread and repeated times since it began that the only car based on a CNJ prototype is the observation... all the others are CNW.  No reason for folks to be assuming anything when it is already quite clearly spelled out.

Which ones  are prototypical and which ones are stand-ins?

Already clearly stated... the observation car is a stand-in, being a shortened version of the prototype.

Were the prototypes built before the Micro-Trains heavyweight prototypes? (I'am asking because the Atlas heavyweights are shorter.)

They were contemporaries of the CNW cars though the CNW cars likely were some of the earliest steel cars rostered by the line, roughly 10 to 15 years before the MT cars.  Why CNW chose to buy shorter coaches is uncertain but it is known that they did... it may be because the cars were based on wood vestibuled baggage - coach and coaches that they already had in use (there were similar open-platform steel cars that also were rostered, albeit a bit longer, which could be kitbashed using a pair of observation car ends).  Even still, in operation the cars were readily used with longer suburban coaches that the CNW also purchased around the same time which were 69' in length and had two extra paired windows per side.  Could be because CNW wanted to use four-axle trucks on these cars instead of six-axle trucks with the weight being a consideration but this is at best speculation since NYC used four-axle trucks on much longer cars, though the ride quality would have been considerably less.

Tom's Model Trains sells the things...

Thanks so much for pointing this out!!!  They have a webpage (linked to above that list three sets suitable for lettering passenger cars (N-scale is at the bottom), one that does Roman lettering, one that does Gothic lettering and a third that includes just Gothic initials and NJDOT arrow herald so most cars would be able to be done using these sets.  Additional lettering from other decal makers or even dry transfer lettering from Clover House should help to provide other lettering that is needed for other cars.  The hardest part in doing lettering would be doing the named cars that received the later blue with yellow letterboard car names, with little being close enough to their unique font.

[brokemoto]

very clearly early on in this thread and repeated times since it began that the only car based on a CNJ prototype is the observation... all the others are CNW. 


They have a webpage (linked to above that list three sets suitable for lettering passenger cars (N-scale is at the bottom), one that does Roman lettering, one that does Gothic lettering and a third that includes just Gothic initials and NJDOT arrow herald so most cars would be able to be done using these sets.  Additional lettering from other decal makers or even dry transfer lettering from Clover House should help to provide other lettering that is needed for other cars. 

I must have missed that.  All that I saw was the statement "based on CNW and CNJ prototypes. 

It is curious that the shortened version of the observation car has the same eighteen windows of the prototype.  Did Atlas scale down the width of the windows to make all of them fit into the shorter body?  If you wanted to add length, you could not add windows, so you might wind up with a curious looking car.  I have no t been able to find any drawings of the things.

You could not try to butt two vestibule ends together and add length to make a CNJ coach of proper length, as the prototype of those things had eighteen windows, as well,  I am not sure of the dimensions of the CNJ cars.  I rode in them in years past.  My recall is that they were about seventy feet.  You might be able to get close on the combine.  The prototype had fourteen windows, so you could cut the baggage end of the short combine and add fourteen windows worth of the observation.  The baggage door on the model appears to be too large for the CNJ, but you might be able to do a little surgery to the opening and fashion a door from a piece of plastic.  I can not quite tell from the photographs, but it appears that you would not need to worry about the letterboards' matching.  You would have to add a vestibule to the baggage end, though.

The Blue Comet did not carry an RPO.  It did carry one or two baggage cars, a combine, coaches, diner and observation

If you wanted to butt together two observation ends, you could cut each one  after the tenth window, thus get the twenty windows of the Lackawanna Boonton car.

You are welcome on the decals.  I ordered two each of the Roman and Gothic sets.  I did not order the NJDOT set, as that is far out of my era.  The decals go on easily.  The Roman set has the decal film on the specific lettering/numbering, but the Gothic set has the film across the entire sheet, so take care to trim carefully on the Gothic.

I looked on the Clover house site.  Most of the dry transfers are HO.  There is a sheet for passenger car types, but it is Roman.  It appears to be HO.  I did not look at the fonts on the alphabet sheets, as I do not have the courage to try to spell out UNITED STATES MAIL RAILWAY POST OFFICE on a car.  It is going to take all the courage that I have to spell OTTAWA on the RR 12-1 Pullman, if I can ever learn how Reading Company had the thing lettered between 1948 and 1956.  (I am assuming that OTTAWA goes in the middle under the window line.  What I can not discover is did it read READING COMPANY on the letterboard?  Did it read PULLMAN during that era?  If it read READING COMPANY, were there small PULLMAN over the doors?).  I do have some Rail Graphics generic passenger car sheets, but I do not know if he sells any of those in the Gothic font that CNJ used.  He is going out of business at the end of 2017.

The later Southern font is similar, but I have not found any decals for Southern passenger cars.  In fact, someone once told me that if you wanted to  letter Southern passenger cars in the Roman font, you had to buy SP passenger car decals and cut out the PACIFIC.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

The OTTAWA would have been in standard Pullman green with Pullman lettering judging from the listing in the Pullman Car Construction Records.  No mention of it receiving another paint scheme, with the car lasting until June 1960 under Pullman lease.  It was the only former Pullman rostered by RDG so I would doubt that the line repainted it.

[brokemoto]

The OTTAWA would have been in standard Pullman green with Pullman lettering judging from the listing in the Pullman Car Construction Records.  It was the only former Pullman rostered by RDG so I would doubt that the line repainted it.

I would not have expected that Reading would have painted it into a different scheme.  My question was more about lettering than repainting.  Some roads did put their roadname on the letterboard after 1948.  Some roads that did that put PULLMAN in sublettering on the car ends; some did not.  Some roads left the PULLMAN name on the letterboard.  The reply is helpful, though, and thank you for it.

There is a tinplate OTTAWA out there, but I forget who sells it.  It is green with the bright green band over the window line.  The letterboard on it reads READING COMPANY, with OTTAWA where you would expect it to be.  The only photographs that ever I have seen of Reading passenger equipment in that scheme have been of the standard coaches rebuilt into looks-much-like-American-Flyer cars (they are, however missing one large window).  I do not know when Reading did those rebuilds or that paint scheme, but those are the only photographs that I have seen of cars painted like that.  You can not base modelling on other models, though, be they tinplate or scale.  That would not be much different from trying to base P&LE modelling on Howard Fogg paintings.  Make no mistake about it, I enjoy Mr. Fogg's paintings and always have.  Some of the paint and lettering schemes that his paintings show are nice looking, but P&LE never had some of them (such as the one that is on the B-mann S-4).

[jmlaboda - RIP]

The CNJ prototypes are 72' 6" long so shortening them to the desired 60' length wouldn't have been that difficult to do...

And there were four CNJ observation cars, not three... CNJ 1169 Tempel, CNJ 1170 Tuttle, CNJ 1178 Di Vico and CNJ 1179 Biela/Monmouth.

[Ngineer]

Not sure why such an assumption is being made since very clearly early on in this thread and repeated times since it began that the only car based on a CNJ prototype is the observation... all the others are CNW.

Thank you!   

I will order the prototypical CNW railway express baggage car.

   Javier