The Turbines Are Coming! The Turbines Are Coming!

[robert3985]

What is the best caboose to go with this engine set?

Centralia Car Shops/Intermountain CA-3/CA-4 cabooses are the only game in town...but, if you want complete accuracy, you have to pick and choose which era you're running your 8500 GTEL turbine in and pick your caboose carefully too. UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbines ran between 1958 and 1970, so let's find the right CCS/IMR CA-3/CA-4 cabooses to fit the bill for the first couple of years, and the rest of the turbine era.

Let's start out with caboose trucks.  Older CCR/IMR CA-3/CA-4 cabooses were equipped with correct "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks, which started to be applied to CA-3/CA-4 in February of 1952 (50 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses) 

By 1958 ALL 197 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses had had their wooden-beamed "Q" trucks replaced with "inside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks (50 CA-3/CA-4's) and the remaining 147 with the "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks that CCS/IMR used to correctly supply all of their N-scale steel UP cabooses with. 

I bought an early-run CCS/IMR UP "safety slogan" caboose last month on eBay that had the correct trucks, but the latest run of CCS/IMR cabooses is different in several significant ways from their UP CA-3/CA-4 cabooses made from the first modification of the Goldenwest Models kit.

Photo (1) - Stock early-run CCS/IMR "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks which are CORRECT:


The newest run has totally incorrect trucks that were never run under ANY UP steel cabooses, so to be correct, you need to find an older CCS/IMR model that has the correct trucks...OR, pop the new trucks off and replace them with "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks from Keystone Customs, available at Shapeways here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/XEZ4G2FRA/n-scale-up-friction-bearing-q-truck-2pk

The newest run trucks are held on by plastic king-pins rather than the screws the original run had.  The new run cabooses have funky, bright brass washers as spacers for their new trucks, which I discard since they are so obvious when looking at the caboose from the side.  I cut a strip of .040" Styrene, .153" wide by 2.260" long, and Tenax it to the stock center beam of the model, drilling new .076" (drill No. 48) holes in it to re-use the stock plastic king-pins.  Paint the Styrene center sill extension flat black.  NOTE!!!  I have not used Keystone Custom's 3D printed trucks yet, so I am not 100% certain this center sill modification will work with them.  I can't see why it wouldn't however, which makes me about 95% sure at this point.  Additionally, this center sill mod will improve the looks of the caboose from the side, as the stock center sill is too shallow.  I do this mod on the older run cabooses too, but cut away the .040" Styrene strips to make spaces for the old, correct truck bolsters to fit correctly against the stock center sill.

Okay...so now you've got the correct trucks on your UP CA-3/CA-4 CCS/IMR model...

On the newest run, you also need to remove the short running board from the cupola, which the UP did on ALL of its CA-3's in 1943.  These were NEVER seen on Armour Yellow UP steel cabooses, and luckily, they pop off easily.  You'll have to paint the cupola roof where the running board was, and the cupola roof usually pops off easily too, which greatly simplifies painting it. While the cupola roof is off, I carefully paint the inside of the cupola with tru-color paint TCP-228 PSG. CAR INT. LT. GRN...since the cupola windows are so large and the cupola walls can be easily seen.

Now, to the subject of paint.  Any caboose on the UP between 1958 and 1970 would have been Armour Yellow.    Those cabooses that were modified for system-wide pool service, were modified between 1969 and 1977.  However, the CCS/IMR cabooses are CA-3/CA-4's and none of those classes were modified for pool service until 1975, well after the 8500 GTEL turbines were retired.  These cabooses are identified easily by the big, red "P's" on all four sides of their cupolas, large red lettering and a long, horizontal safety slogan.  NONE of the CCR/IMR pool service renditions would be correct for running behind the 8500 GTEL turbine model, so stay away from from any CCR/IMR caboose that has a big, red "P" on its cupola.

Photo (2) - Prior to February 1959, all CA-3/CA-4 UP steel cabooses were painted like this, 100 CA-3's numbered 3700-3799 and 100 CA-4's numbered 3800-3899, but with three styles of trucks:


In February 1959 through August 1960, all CA-3's were renumbered 25000-25099.

In February 1959 through June 1960, all CA-4's were renumbered 25100-25199.

Additionally, in 1958 all of the wood-beamed "Q" trucks were removed and replaced with 147 sets of "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks and 50 sets of "inside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks (which aren't available).

Other than the numbers, CA-3/CA-4 class UP cabooses remained the same thru 1975 except in 1964 for cars equipped with batteries and radios, which received battery and radio symbols, and in early 1969, ACI labels started to be applied to cabooses.

Red lettering can be easily removed using a micro-brush and 91% isopropyl alcohol.  I removed all of the red lettering on two CA-3/CA-4 CCS/IMR cabooses in about an hour.

Microscale decal sheet 60-905 "Union Pacific CA-1 thru CA-9 Cabooses (1947-1977)" is perfect for re-lettering. If I were re-lettering specifically to run behind my 8500 GTEL Turbine, I'd choose 5 digit numbers.

After the decals have thoroughly set, degrease the sides of your caboose with clean Bestine or Heptane, mask the windows and spray with a light coat of Dullcote to get rid of decal shine and phantom stock lettering remnants.

So, the starting point for a "correct" caboose to run behind your UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbine, is any CCS/IMR CA-3/CA-4 model that has this paint job with either 4 or 5 digit numbers....

Photo (3) - Stock CCS/IMR Union Pacific Early Caboose w/ghastly incorrect trucks, incorrect cupola running board, and fugly bright brass bolster spacers:


Note that some CCS/IMR "early" cabooses have 1" red stripes above "Union Pacific".  These were supposed to be removed from steel cabooses in 1952, but I've seen photos of cabooses into the 70's retaining these stripes.

That's basically "it" for making sure you're running the correct UP CA-3/CA-4 cabooses behind your UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbines...the most simple mods.

I additionally get rid of the stock running boards and replace them with clipped & snipped 50' Plano versions, replace the underbody details with brass versions from Precision Scale, cut the cast-on grabs off and replace them with .007" stainless steel bend-ups I do myself, remove the smokejack and replace with a scratch-built one, and I add cupola grabs up top.  I also replace the stock ME N-scale coupler with Z-scale couplers, add air lines and sometimes, if I can get the floor off, I'll add interior details...especially interior cupola details...and lastly, scratch-built kerosene (taller than the electric versions) marker lamps with MV's smallest red & green lenses.

Basically, the CCS/IMR UP CA-3/CA-4 is a good starting point for making a much better model with a few scratchbuilt & aftermarket parts...

Photo (4) - CCS/IMR/Goldenwest Models CA-3/CA-4 Project nearing completion:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[up1950s]

I thought that the line above the name , a method that was used in reporting marks , was no longer required "56>" . Not that it was to be removed , just not replaced .

[CBQ Fan]

Centralia Car Shops/Intermountain CA-3/CA-4 cabooses are the only game in town...but, if you want complete accuracy, you have to pick and choose which era you're running your 8500 GTEL turbine in and pick your caboose carefully too. UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbines ran between 1958 and 1970, so let's find the right CCS/IMR CA-3/CA-4 cabooses to fit the bill for the first couple of years, and the rest of the turbine era.

Let's start out with caboose trucks.  Older CCR/IMR CA-3/CA-4 cabooses were equipped with correct "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks, which started to be applied to CA-3/CA-4 in February of 1952 (50 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses) 

By 1958 ALL 197 CA-3/CA-4 cabooses had had their wooden-beamed "Q" trucks replaced with "inside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks (50 CA-3/CA-4's) and the remaining 147 with the "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks that CCS/IMR used to correctly supply all of their N-scale steel UP cabooses with. 

I bought an early-run CCS/IMR UP "safety slogan" caboose last month on eBay that had the correct trucks, but the latest run of CCS/IMR cabooses is different in several significant ways from their UP CA-3/CA-4 cabooses made from the first modification of the Goldenwest Models kit.

Photo (1) - Stock early-run CCS/IMR "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks which are CORRECT:


The newest run has totally incorrect trucks that were never run under ANY UP steel cabooses, so to be correct, you need to find an older CCS/IMR model that has the correct trucks...OR, pop the new trucks off and replace them with "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks from Keystone Customs, available at Shapeways here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/XEZ4G2FRA/n-scale-up-friction-bearing-q-truck-2pk

The newest run trucks are held on by plastic king-pins rather than the screws the original run had.  The new run cabooses have funky, bright brass washers as spacers for their new trucks, which I discard since they are so obvious when looking at the caboose from the side.  I cut a strip of .040" Styrene, .153" wide by 2.260" long, and Tenax it to the stock center beam of the model, drilling new .076" (drill No. 48) holes in it to re-use the stock plastic king-pins.  Paint the Styrene center sill extension flat black.  NOTE!!!  I have not used Keystone Custom's 3D printed trucks yet, so I am not 100% certain this center sill modification will work with them.  I can't see why it wouldn't however, which makes me about 95% sure at this point.  Additionally, this center sill mod will improve the looks of the caboose from the side, as the stock center sill is too shallow.  I do this mod on the older run cabooses too, but cut away the .040" Styrene strips to make spaces for the old, correct truck bolsters to fit correctly against the stock center sill.

Okay...so now you've got the correct trucks on your UP CA-3/CA-4 CCS/IMR model...

On the newest run, you also need to remove the short running board from the cupola, which the UP did on ALL of its CA-3's in 1943.  These were NEVER seen on Armour Yellow UP steel cabooses, and luckily, they pop off easily.  You'll have to paint the cupola roof where the running board was, and the cupola roof usually pops off easily too, which greatly simplifies painting it. While the cupola roof is off, I carefully paint the inside of the cupola with tru-color paint TCP-228 PSG. CAR INT. LT. GRN...since the cupola windows are so large and the cupola walls can be easily seen.

Now, to the subject of paint.  Any caboose on the UP between 1958 and 1970 would have been Armour Yellow.    Those cabooses that were modified for system-wide pool service, were modified between 1969 and 1977.  However, the CCS/IMR cabooses are CA-3/CA-4's and none of those classes were modified for pool service until 1975, well after the 8500 GTEL turbines were retired.  These cabooses are identified easily by the big, red "P's" on all four sides of their cupolas, large red lettering and a long, horizontal safety slogan.  NONE of the CCR/IMR pool service renditions would be correct for running behind the 8500 GTEL turbine model, so stay away from from any CCR/IMR caboose that has a big, red "P" on its cupola.

Photo (2) - Prior to February 1959, all CA-3/CA-4 UP steel cabooses were painted like this, 100 CA-3's numbered 3700-3799 and 100 CA-4's numbered 3800-3899, but with three styles of trucks:


In February 1959 through August 1960, all CA-3's were renumbered 25000-25099.

In February 1959 through June 1960, all CA-4's were renumbered 25100-25199.

Additionally, in 1958 all of the wood-beamed "Q" trucks were removed and replaced with 147 sets of "outside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks and 50 sets of "inside-swing-hanger, friction-bearing" trucks (which aren't available).

Other than the numbers, CA-3/CA-4 class UP cabooses remained the same thru 1975 except in 1964 for cars equipped with batteries and radios, which received battery and radio symbols, and in early 1969, ACI labels started to be applied to cabooses.

Red lettering can be easily removed using a micro-brush and 91% isopropyl alcohol.  I removed all of the red lettering on two CA-3/CA-4 CCS/IMR cabooses in about an hour.

Microscale decal sheet 60-905 "Union Pacific CA-1 thru CA-9 Cabooses (1947-1977)" is perfect for re-lettering. If I were re-lettering specifically to run behind my 8500 GTEL Turbine, I'd choose 5 digit numbers.

After the decals have thoroughly set, degrease the sides of your caboose with clean Bestine or Heptane, mask the windows and spray with a light coat of Dullcote to get rid of decal shine and phantom stock lettering remnants.

So, the starting point for a "correct" caboose to run behind your UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbine, is any CCS/IMR CA-3/CA-4 model that has this paint job with either 4 or 5 digit numbers....

Photo (3) - Stock CCS/IMR Union Pacific Early Caboose w/ghastly incorrect trucks and fugly bright brass bolster spacers:


Note that some CCS/IMR "early" cabooses have 1" red stripes above "Union Pacific".  These were supposed to be removed from steel cabooses in 1952, but I've seen photos of cabooses into the 70's retaining these stripes.

That's basically "it" for making sure you're running the correct UP CA-3/CA-4 cabooses behind your UP 8500 GTEL Gas Turbines...the most simple mods.

I additionally get rid of the stock running boards and replace them with clipped & snipped 50' Plano versions, replace the underbody details with brass versions from Precision Scale, cut the cast-on grabs off and replace them with .007" stainless steel bend-ups I do myself, remove the smokejack and replace with a scratch-built one, and I add cupola grabs up top.  I also replace the stock ME N-scale coupler with Z-scale couplers, add air lines and sometimes, if I can get the floor off, I'll add interior details...especially interior cupola details...and lastly, scratch-built kerosene (taller than the electric versions) marker lamps with MV's smallest red & green lenses.

Basically, the CCS/IMR UP CA-3/CA-4 is a good starting point for making a much better model with a few scratchbuilt & aftermarket parts...

Photo (4) - CCS/IMR/Goldenwest Models CA-3/CA-4 Project nearing completion:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Awesome recap!  Thank you!

When are the red and brown versions from?

[robert3985]

I thought that the line above the name , a method that was used in reporting marks , was no longer required "56>" . Not that it was to be removed , just not replaced .

Page 254 in "Cabooses of the Union Pacific Railroad", author Don Strack states "In 1952, the one-inch bar above the lettering and below the number was removed from the drawings."

Page 256 in the same book, the caption under a photo of CA-3 25062, the author states "(Class CA-3, June 1942) Salt Lake City, Utah, June 1976.  The car has 8-inch lettering, minus the one inch stripes, removed (emphasis mine) after 1952."

So, whether the stripes were "removed" or not, they did disappear from most steel cabooses starting in 1952.  As I stated in my post, I've seen photos well into the '70's of cabooses still wearing the stripe over "Union Pacific", so whatever process U.P. used to eventually get rid of the 1" stripes wasn't totally universal.

What is relevant for this thread, is that the 1" stripe would be okay on CA-3/CA-4 cabooses for running behind the UP 8500 GTEL Turbine model, but what is most "normal" would be a CA-3/CA-4 with 8" lettering, a five-digit number, and no stripe/stripes.

You may be correct, but for establishing what the lettering is for a "correct" CA-3/CA-4 caboose to run on a train being pulled by a UP 8500 GTEL Turbine, how the stripes disappeared on the prototype cabooses is of interest only to SUPF's like you and me!  That they persisted on a few cabooses during the "Super Turbine" era fortunately gives the modeler another prototypically accurate choice. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ntex]

Bob, your caboose detailing looks great!
What parts did you use for the cupola hand grabs?

Steve Fass

[robert3985]

Bob, your caboose detailing looks great!
What parts did you use for the cupola hand grabs?

Steve Fass

Thanks Steve.  I really love UP cabooses, so I spend a lot of time researching them and modifying the cabooses on my layout to be as correct as I can make 'em. 

Here's what I did for the cupola hand grabs....(1) First, I took photos of the real thing so I would know what I was doing.  Luckily, there's a CA-4 preserved at the Utah Railroad Museum at the Ogden Union Station, which is only 20 minutes from where I live.  (2) The cupolas have small steel plates on their cupolas the grab eyebolts are welded to, so I first installed little .005" pieces of Styrene I'd cut to size and then bent into an "L" shape where the grab eyebolts would go, (3) Then, I bent up the grab eyebolts, which are shaped like the number "9" and CA'd them into .007" holes I'd drilled through the Styrene plates and the cupola roof, with the leg of the "9" sticking into the hole with the little loop of the "9" facing inward. (4) Then, I carefully bent up the actual grab from a short length of .007" stainless wire, making sure the two ends of it meet exactly at one of the grab eyebolts.  (5) A tiny drop of runny CA, followed by a quick squirt of Accelerator makes it permanent.  I do one grab eyebolt at a time, waiting a few seconds for the CA to cure, then drying the Accelerator with a hair dryer so it won't set off the next eyebolt prematurely.

Photo (1) - This shows the Styrene "plates" on the cupola top, as well as other mods on my CMM/IMR/Goldenwest Models CA-3/CA-4's:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

When are the red and brown versions from?

In the 20th Century, UP never had "red" cabooses although the brown on their cabooses was called various things such as "boxcar red", "freight car red", "mineral red" or "oxide red".  From photos, it looks as if the rich, reddish brown color on UP's cabooses was a bit more "red" than simple "boxcar red".  Maybe this was from fading, or differences in paint mixing at the various caboose servicing locations.  In light of this, I paint my non-Armour Yellow cabooses with Scalecoat II "Oxide Red".  I like it.

It's an easy paint job as the whole caboose, underbody, trucks, grabs, end platforms...everything...is painted the same reddish brown color.

The years UP painted their CA-3/CA-4 cabooses "freight car red" was from the time the first 100 CA-3's arrived in 1942 until June of 1947.  In June of 1947 a major caboose repainting effort was ordered, and air views of several UP roundhouses show dozens of wooden and steel cabooses being painted Armour Yellow.

However, not all "freight car red" UP cabooses immediately got painted, and it's quite common to see photos or videos of UP trains with two or three cabooses on the end, with one or two of them being brown well into 1951 or 1952.

Additionally, in 1942, all the new CA-3's were equipped with the cupola running board, but due to safety reasons, all of these were quickly removed sometime in 1943, and the stencil "Keep Off Cupola" was applied above the remnants of the three grab irons used to get on top of the cupola earlier.

Photo (1) - "Freight car red" UP CA-4 caboose - early Overland brass:


In spite of the photo, UP "freight car red" cabooses were equipped with the wood-beamed "Q" trucks, available from Panamint Models (Chris Cox) here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/8SHC9ZYPG/t58p-x8-n-offset-passenger-truck-caboose-overton?optionId=42424997

Photo (2) - "Freight car red" caboose & "Armour Yellow" cabooses look good running together on UP trains dated between 1947 & 1952:


However, "freight car red" UP cabooses were gone well before the 8500 GTEL Turbines were delivered starting in 1958.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[CBQ Fan]

Thank you Bob.

[peteski]

. . . and Bob joins the prestigious  "way in the left field, or on the other end of the train" off-topic club!  Nice cabbeses. 

[Cajonpassfan]

What is the best caboose to go with this engine set?

Well, Bob was just being helpful responding to an innocent question, and being Bob, he wanted to make sure his answers were truly COMPREHENSIVE. And he succeeded
This drift actually deserves a thread of its own, as the caboose information, and modeling, are both useful and terrific!
Otto K.

[peteski]

Well, Bob was just being helpful responding to an innocent question, and being Bob, he wanted to make sure his answers were truly COMPREHENSIVE. And he succeeded
This drift actually deserves a thread of its own, as the caboose information, and modeling, are both useful and terrific!

I agree - maybe mods will do the deed and split those posts into their own thread.

[ntex]

Thanks for the detailed instructions Bob.
Looks like I have a couple of hacks to start
detailing.

Steve Fass

[u18b]

I don't have a bone in this one.

But this is a case of...

loco made in brass.

Loco coming out in plastic.

Brass price/value will/may fall

Should I sell brass, or risk keeping?

I'll be facing this with the AC6000 coming.

Pennsy fans with T-1 are facing this.

Of course, if you had a brass Kumata Centipede, you were probably better off selling ASAP when prices were still in the stratosphere.

But sometimes the plastic does not come up to snuff.

To sell brass or stay in....

So what's the verdict on the turbines?

[up1950s]

I have a brass Overland 3 and I am keeping it . Looks great runs great , and pulls a moose through a garden hose . If the plastic was a # 1 or 2 I would have bought one . I will refrain from any grumps or gloats as I haven't bought the right to .

[wcfn100]

So what's the verdict on the turbines?

Try before you buy. 


Jason