Weekend Update 3/22/15

[R L Smith]

Tuba AND oboe ?!?  You must have an embouchure made of steel.

Doug

+1.  Doubling brass and woodwinds is rare enough, but doubling brass and a double reed instrument?  Wow.

I was a saxophone major in college, and played sousaphone in the marching band. I still play the sax occassionally, but my fiancee and my neighbors are very grateful I no longer attempt to play a sousaphone...

To get back on the thread drift topic, our church choir director always reminds us that "practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent".

Ron

[Roger Holmes]

After three years of violin lessons I was told in third grade that my fingers were too fat and stubby for any future with the instrument.  They never grew that much but they seem to work for N scale modeling.

Being rejected by the violin also lead to a 56 year (so far) adventure as a drummer. Everything from symphonic work, to 60-70's rock plus a ton of theater shows, Dixieland and church.  There are a few records that I played on floating around out there including one in the short-lived Quadrophonic format of the early 1970's.

I will echo both comments about Buddy Rich.  I sat about 20 feet away from him as he played a trio gig.  He was masterful.  In a day when most drummers have so many drums and cymbals in their set that all you have to do is move an arm and you are guaranteed to hit something, he created amazing music with a small four piece set.  He also ragged mercilessly, and very publically, on the bass player all night long.

No modeling tonight, I have rehearsal!

[BCR751]

Let's not talk about french horn in all this, then.

I am currently trying to learn the French horn but I just can't seem to get the treble clef.  Too many years in the bass I think.

To get back on the thread drift topic, our church choir director always reminds us that "practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent".

Some wise person (probably a musician) once said "Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong".  Sure works in music.

Doug

[carlso]

Doctors  practice medicine, right. My comment to my cardiologist is " I don't mind you practicing medicine, but please do not practice on me". In this case practice could certainly be permanent.

Carl

[C855B]

Some wise person (probably a musician) once said "Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong".  Sure works in music.

Yep. We call it "muscle memory", but it's actually the brain's motor reflexes in play. Do a small motor control sequence often enough and it becomes ingrained in such a way that there is very little cognition involved, it happens "automatically". I usually don't practice enough on any specific piece for it, but there was a Vivaldi oboe trio concerto I performed several years ago where this effect "took over" and the instrument all but played itself. I was having problems with carpal tunnel at the time so my fingers were numb... it was very spooky, it was a complex piece and it was like I was along for the ride.

This applies in painting, too. Do a stroke often enough and it becomes second-nature. This is where practice transcends talent, the talent mostly just a kick-starter.

[BCR751]

This applies in painting, too. Do a stroke often enough and it becomes second-nature. This is where practice transcends talent, the talent mostly just a kick-starter.

I wish that would hold true for backdrop painting.  I've been practicing my butt off and my results still look like crap.  But, I digress.......

Doug

[eja]

I am (pleasantly) surprised to learn there are so many musicians among us - myself included.  I am a (semi)-professional violinist who play two concerts last weekend with completely different music in two different cities !

No wonder I never get any work done on the railroad .

[peteski]

This applies in painting, too. Do a stroke often enough and it becomes second-nature. This is where practice transcends talent, the talent mostly just a kick-starter.

Someone can have a good stroke (that sounds weird) but that is only small part of being an artist. One's brain has to be able to translate a 3D image into well-proportioned 2D representation of it on a flat canvas.  The proportions have to be just right, then there is the choice of colors which will look natural. The whole color mixing thing is another art in itself. Again, person's brain needs to arrive at the right mix of paints to arrive at just the right color.  Some of this is training (like going to art school and learning about perspective, colors, etc.), but a really talented person will still do it much better than an average Joe (even if they had the same amount of training).

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that good artists (in any field) have a natural talent for what they do (on top of education and practicing).  And weathering (what started this whole discussion) is no different.  Some have it, others can strive to be good, but will never be as good and natural at it as the person with their natural talent.

[craigolio1]

Yep. We call it "muscle memory", but it's actually the brain's motor reflexes in play. Do a small motor control sequence often enough and it becomes ingrained in such a way that there is very little cognition involved, it happens "automatically". I usually don't practice enough on any specific piece for it, but there was a Vivaldi oboe trio concerto I performed several years ago where this effect "took over" and the instrument all but played itself. I was having problems with carpal tunnel at the time so my fingers were numb... it was very spooky, it was a complex piece and it was like I was along for the ride.

I'm embarrassed to say this considering the level of quality musicians you guys are, but, and please don't laugh, I had this experience playing......    Guitar Hero.  Yup. I was playing the guitar solo on Metalica's "One" an advanced. Exactly what you say here happened. I must have tried it a hundred times and then finally one day my fingers just did it on their own. I remember playing it and actually being surprised, while playing it, that I was playing it. I get that it's a video game but it's still a massive amount of quick finger movements.

This sort of thing blows my mind. I like to watch Metal drummers on YouTube. It's like watching the Matrix and your description of muscle memory is bang on. 

Craig

[Wardie]

Let's not talk about french horn in all this, then.

I had fairly good luck doubling French Horn in Wind Ensemble and Bass Trombone in Jazz band for a number of years, enough of a difference in embouchure to not be a serious strain switching during a performance. Although to be honest I never have had the certainty of being in tune in the upper register on the French Horn that our lead French Horn player did, I was a good third or fourth horn. I went into the Horn section  to cover for a part for one concert and it took me 7 years to get back in to the trombone section after that.

I also can't imagine doubling a double reed and brass though. I have known a couple flute players that were fairly successful doubling low brass though.

[peteski]

Wow!  This thread has picked up a whole new tone!   

How about if we start discussing locomotive horns?  No talent needed - just lots of compressed air. Nathan 5-chime anyone? 

[Rich_S]

Speaking of musical instruments, when I was about 10 or 12, my uncle tried to teach me how to play a trumpet. I had to give it up after about a month. I just couldn't figure out how to get all those different notes out of only 3 valves.


Hmm... Kiz did excel on
the kazoo, however...

I play trumpet, 8 years full time in school. Back then I was in for the whole nine yards, marching band, brass choir, touring brass band, concert band, now i just play for my own enjoyment. Total time playing trumpet is 44 years and I still can't hit the notes that Doc Severinsen and Maynard Ferguson can hit. Of course I gave up trying 36 years ago    To answer your question Kiz, it's all in the ear

[mrhedley]

Interesting discussion.  There are some things in life where hard work can't make up for lack of natural talent.  Singing, I'd guess--but I'll never have to concern myself with it.  For me running is one of my obsessions.  I was a sprinter in HS, above average (low elevens, 100 yards), but far from great.  Later in life I became a distance runner (an easy transition for anyone who finds out they no longer have speed...).  I've logged over 60,000 miles on road work alone, not including the track drills, specialty lifting an stretching, etc..  I still can't win my age group without my faster rivals taking the day off.  I've run thirty marathons, qualified for Boston multiple times, but despite years of a rigorous training ethic that some of my rivals are in awe of, I'll never be more than better than average. But I remain motivated for the great health it has helped me maintain.  My wife runs too and we share lifestyles that are built around running.  I'm 61 years old and most think I'm under 50.  The graying temples are starting to give it away though... 

[BCR751]

Wow!  This thread has picked up a whole new tone!   

How about if we start discussing locomotive horns?  No talent needed - just lots of compressed air. Nathan 5-chime anyone? 

Funny you should mention that.  I found an old steam whistle that was used on a logging donkey, probably back in the 40's.  I cleaned it up with the thought of getting it to blow.  I got an old propane tank and figured I would fill it with air and let 'er rip.  As I was getting the tank  filled, the guy with the compressor asked what I was going to use it for.  When I told him, he just laughed and told me what I would need to blow that whistle would be one of those huge Ingersoll-Rand compressors like the ones used to run jack hammers.  I should have known better since the input orifice is just over one inch in diameter   The whistle is now sitting on a shelf in our living room, never to blow again.

Doug

[nickelplate759]

Well, to continue on the new tone - I was a French horn player as well.  Gave it up when I couldn't/wouldn't invest the 2 hours a day I needed to maintain my chops.
Now I play the horn on my PA-1 models...

George