Weekend Update 3/22/15

[Kisatchie]

Speaking of musical instruments, when I was about 10 or 12, my uncle tried to teach me how to play a trumpet. I had to give it up after about a month. I just couldn't figure out how to get all those different notes out of only 3 valves.


Hmm... Kiz did excel on
the kazoo, however...

[BCR751]

You, me, @tom mann, and @Dave Vollmer. The Railwire trombone choir: "Tom Mann and his Merry Menn."
I had a lot of fun in community band back in the day. I remember there was this weird tuba player...well, weirder than usual, who it seemed like he woke up one day and said "I'm going to play tuba." He had a brand new horn and every piece of gimmicky ***** you could imagine. He had a special stand that he used while playing, he had a special towel that he would set his horn on when not in use, he had another special towel for his stand, he had a stand caddy, leather lacquer guards, multiple clip on pencil holders, a clip on tuner... and he was terrible. I guess I shouldn't make fun of the guy, but I've never seen any musician anywhere like him since.

We have a tuba player that sounds just like that guy, clip on tuner and all.  And, he sucks, er, he's not very good.  He's always out of tune despite the clip-on and his tone is terrible.  My wife plays bass clarinet and sits right in front of him....drives her crazy.

Yup, we should get hold of a real nice trombone quartet piece, everyone take a part, record it and have someone mix it like Eric Whitacre, the the guy who did the 3000 voice virtual choir.  Then, play it on TRW.  Wouldn't that be cool?  Or, maybe not .

Doug

[C855B]

...well, weirder than usual, ...

Geez... these trombone guys ragging on tuba players. Nope, you can't get any lower than a tuba player, nosirree. And don't you [trombonists] forget it.

 

I've played tuba professionally, and can still rattle the rafters when needed. Fortunately I haven't yet experienced the hacks-with-money y'all are talking about. Sounds dreadful.

Buddy Rich was a monster, ...

Yes, he was. I had a couple of friends who played for him. Defensive rule number one - if you dinged a note, it was imperative to have no reactive reflex and keep a straight face, otherwise accidentally confirming the source. If you couldn't hide it, you were out on the street at the next break. Ruthless.

[craigolio1]

We have a fellow in our wind ensemble that plays baritone.  He's been doing it for about 30 years (so he says) and he sounds like somebody in the 6th grade that just picked up the horn for the first time.  I guess some have it and some don't.  I, too, play trombone, by the way.

Doug

I've played sax since I was 12, but I havn't PLAYED since I was 18...  And it shows. But I've been playing for 25 years!  Maybe that's your Baritone. I pick it up a couple of times a year to play some favourites.  I sound like I did in 8th grade.

Craig.

[mark dance]

The premise of "Talent is Over Rated" is that all skill and talent is learned and that it isn't just putting in the 10,000 hours of practice but how the practice was done.  Examples I recall from the book include Mozart , Tiger Woods, Ben Franklin, Jerry Rice.  Fascinating read.  The big take away for me was I we can no longer use "I don't have a talent for that" as an excuse to not be capable of something.  The mindset removes a lot of excuses...

md

[wm3798]

At one time I fancied myself a golfer.  I had all the clubs, but really only used 2 (3 if you count the occasional need for the sand wedge).  I drove like I was putting, and I putted like I was driving.  It quickly became clear that any additional investment in equipment would be a bad one.  It turned out the best thing I could use to improve my score was the pencil at the end of a round.

I think I spent my 10,000 on a bar stool at the 19th hole.  Might have been part of the problem...

Lee

[lashedup]

At one time I fancied myself a golfer.  I had all the clubs, but really only used 2 (3 if you count the occasional need for the sand wedge).  I drove like I was putting, and I putted like I was driving.  It quickly became clear that any additional investment in equipment would be a bad one.  It turned out the best thing I could use to improve my score was the pencil at the end of a round.

I think I spent my 10,000 on a bar stool at the 19th hole.  Might have been part of the problem...

Lee

But after 10,000 hours on a bar stool, you'll get pretty good at that one thing...   

[basementcalling]

The premise of "Talent is Over Rated" is that all skill and talent is learned and that it isn't just putting in the 10,000 hours of practice but how the practice was done.  Examples I recall from the book include Mozart , Tiger Woods, Ben Franklin, Jerry Rice.  Fascinating read.  The big take away for me was I we can no longer use "I don't have a talent for that" as an excuse to not be capable of something.  The mindset removes a lot of excuses...

md

The first place I remember reading the 10,000 hour thing was in one of Malcom Gladwell's books.  It certainly explains a lot of why so many people are so explosively creative or successful in their late 20s in sports, or why some extremely gifted folks may do their best creative work a few years earlier (Motzart & Beethoven for example).

My take away though was that 10,000 hours of proper practice at a high level will maximize natural ability. I could have played 10,000 hours of competitive baseball continuing after HS but that would not have let my fastball ever approach 90 mph. Some gifts are God given, but how we maximize our potential is up to our choices.

[C855B]

The premise of "Talent is Over Rated" is that all skill and talent is learned and that it isn't just putting in the 10,000 hours of practice but how the practice was done.  Examples I recall from the book include Mozart , Tiger Woods, Ben Franklin, Jerry Rice.  Fascinating read. ...

This is the old "nurture vs. nature" discussion, but it sounds to me like the author is jaded and doesn't understand or even resents talent. So I disagree with the premise. Innate talent has a key role, and the "10,000 hours" a refinement of the core ability. OTOH wasted, unpracticed talent is a cliché.

I point to a couple of famous actors who are more famous for their obvious lack of acting talent - Bill Shatner and David Hasselhoff. They get by on "practiced" acting, otherwise known as "method acting". You can usually tell when a professional actor is a method actor, as there are frequently moments in their presentation which just make you cringe.

... Some gifts are God given, but how we maximize our potential is up to our choices.

Yes... allow me to reflect on myself. I am a musician, playing sometimes professionally on tuba and oboe, and avocationally on a dozen other wind instruments. I have zero formal training on any and don't practice outside of ensemble settings very much, but am an in-demand performer in my tiny little fishpond. I call it "a knack", but in so many words it's innate talent, a gift, and not something I work at - definitely no "10,000 hours" in my background, although it scares me what I could have been had I devoted that sort of time to it. Conversely, after years of formal training and intense practice, I cannot play keyboards. Just can't. A total hack in anybody's book. Yet I still call myself a musician. Shameful. (At least I know where Bb is. A guy's gotta tune.)

Then there's last night's concert, an assembly of the various local school groups (I play with the college symphonic winds). There was this senior with the high school band playing tympani who had the demeanor, style, and performance quality of the best professionals I've played with and seen in performance. Jaw-dropping. That was talent, clearly, and she will go far with formal training, and, yes, practice.

[BCR751]

I've played tuba professionally, and can still rattle the rafters when needed. Fortunately I haven't yet experienced the hacks-with-money y'all are talking about. Sounds dreadful.

If you're not doing anything and would like a change of scenery, let's talk.  We sure could use you in our group

Doug

[BCR751]

I am a musician, playing sometimes professionally on tuba and oboe, and avocationally on a dozen other wind instruments.

Tuba AND oboe ?!?  You must have an embouchure made of steel.

Doug

[victor miranda]

talent vs practice?

this starts in the middle at all times.
if you like it and it is easy to do, you have a talent for it.

you start your practice well ahead of many others.

to use music as an example...
I have been told that I can't stay on beat in 3/4 time
so I practice.

after so many years of work getting n-scale locos to run reliably
I seem to have a talent for it.

I may have a knack for repair and tuning.
that I can't tell.  it is one of the things I do.

for some things practice is the better path.
for some reason auto manufacturing is what I think
lacks for talent and that is correct and proper.
everything leading to what is built is where a talent is quite desirable.
the design of a very good fuel pump may require a talented engineer.

let pina-farina design the body, please get toyota to build it.

practice is good and one should not allow a lack of 'talent'
to stand as an excuse... one can learn to do better.
The only range where a 'talent' may do better is, possibly, in leading the art.

mozart may be a good example of this.


you guys here are doing excellent modeling.
keep in mind that you are also doing exceptionally good photography.

victor

[C855B]

Tuba AND oboe ?!?  You must have an embouchure made of steel.

Let's not talk about french horn in all this, then. French horn to oboe is by far the worst, my jaw just aches if I double. With the inconsistent scoring for oboe in modern band literature I've been doubling on tuba and oboe in concert lately. Somehow it just works, I don't question it. Also, to a certain degree the breath capacity and control is complementary. I can hold a tuning note (Bb or A) on the oboe for about two minutes, and that entirely comes from the time on tuba.

The one instrument that's suffered from all this jumping around is piccolo - I can get the notes on the fast stuff but tone quality and intonation stinks. Thankfully we have a surplus of good piccoloists... if there is such a thing. (How do you keep two piccoloists in tune? Shoot one. Same thing applies to oboes.)

[tehachapifan]

IMHO, nothing replaces natural talent and ability but you still have to have that and the unwavering ambition and commitment to endless practice to become a standout.

I run into guys at the golf course who play maybe once or twice a year and shoot I the 70's. They clearly have incredible natural ability but apparently lack ambition to take it to the next level.

Until recently, I was playing several times a week for over 5 years plus endless hours at the driving range and the best I ever shot was 92....twice....from the blues. Most of the time I still hover around 100.

[C855B]

Conversely, there's talent burn-out. Skyrocket stuff. Tiger Woods is a good example.

I also have an oboist acquaintance from high school who was crazy talented, went to Julliard straight from high school. Somebody I look up to, obviously. Became a pro, of course, playing for a big-city symphony. Was done with it all and completely out of pro music by the time he was 30. Went into computers, and now writes fiction for a living. His first book was an autobiography, but with names changed to protect the guilty - only folks who know him would understand that it was about his own experience with burnout as a symphonic professional. Considering that he was one of the "strongest" personalities of my experience, I really need to get his book and learn what it was that drove him out.