B&O Wagontop Boxcar - Double door version

[TrainCat2]

I think the overland model maybe just that a M15L.

The OMI measures out at 15ft 3in which is close enough to be the M-15M. The real weird thing is that the door height does NOT match the drawing AT ALL. That is where the 1ft difference is. The tall ladder matches the M-15M drawing too. However, the door seam and rib matches the M-15L drawing more closely. Looks like my overland is a M-15LM.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Bob,
I am told that there is no M15L/M that is what F&C is confusing about. It is either one or tother.

One way or another I think we can finish up with an accurate car.

Regards

Al

[VonRyan]

Excellent resources presented here.
Certainly shaping up to be more of a collaboration effort than just a production.

I intend to make the '55 and earlier version since my personal cut-off is 1956.
I'm thinking that a resin casting of an old Kadee 40' reefer fishbelly floor would be an excellent floor for these models and it will leave weight standards up to the modeler.

I'm already looking into possible ways to create a master with as much prototype fidelity as possible for the regular kit, and result in an excellent base for the craftsman version.

As always, input is greatly appreciated, especially since it would be inappropriate for a product spawned on TRW to be less than the utmost best.


-Cody F.
Haddon Car Shops

[Alwyn Cutmore]

If you are looking to do a master I would suggest having the model drawn in 3D and then having the master produced from that. Leave the MTL underfloor in the box. I for one would not buy a model suspecting that someone elses work was used. You maybe able to do a deal with MTL to buy underfloors.

Regards

Al

[VonRyan]

If you are looking to do a master I would suggest having the model drawn in 3D and then having the master produced from that. Leave the MTL underfloor in the box. I for one would not buy a model suspecting that someone elses work was used. You maybe able to do a deal with MTL to buy underfloors.

Regards

Al

I'll have to compare the Kadee and the MT fishbelly floors to see if the tooling and the profiles look the same.

As for doing a 3d printed master, that's well above my pay-grade, and hiring the job out would certainly add to the price-point.

Looking into taking the same route that was used to make the original master, but using two of the ancient brass-and-wood kits so that all subsequent castings will be 1st generation instead of 2nd.

If I can't come up with an acceptable master that will keep price low while keeping y'all happy, the project will get placed on the back burner in favor of more expedient project possibilities.



-Cody F.
Haddon Car Shops

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Cody,
Just remember always the cheap is not always cheap especially when you get it home. I have quite a number of things I have bought that I can do nothing worthwhile with. WOFTAM. (Waste Of Time And Money).
I would rather pay $20.00 for a model I can use than $10.00 for a bummer.
Regards
Al

[VonRyan]

Cody,
Just remember always the cheap is not always cheap especially when you get it home. I have quite a number of things I have bought that I can do nothing worthwhile with. WOFTAM. (Waste Of Time And Money).
I would rather pay $20.00 for a model I can use than $10.00 for a bummer.
Regards
Al

I'm certainly not trying to make it cheap, but I am trying to make it a reasonably priced model, which means 3d printing the master is out of the question since I would have to pay someone to do the CAD work, plus the printing quality isn't good enough for an acceptable master.
I'm looking into as many avenues as possible for making a master, some more feasible than others.

In the meantime I am also researching possibilities for future projects.


-Cody F.
Haddon Car Shops

[bbussey]

The Kadee and MTL floor/underframe is the same.  You should not use the part without MTL's permission if you intend to sell the finished product.

Follow Al's advice and contact MTL to purchase the raw parts.  They will sell them to you, and it will be less costly than making a new master for the floor and casting it.

[VonRyan]

The Kadee and MTL floor/underframe is the same.  You should not use the part without MTL's permission if you intend to sell the finished product.

Follow Al's advice and contact MTL to purchase the raw parts.  They will sell them to you, and it will be less costly than making a new master for the floor and casting it.

That is the intended route. The main concern right now is the master for the actual car itself.


-Cody F.
Haddon Car Shops

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Cody,

I can get pattern made from RP and they do not even come close to looking like Shapeways. They are of a quality where you can take them from the RP shop and cast with little or no cleanup. The cost of doing this is reducing daily and in you business plan you work out how many you would need to amertise the cost. You look at the fine products by Hell Gate Models and they have no problem moving their items at $30.00 plus dollars but they are good stuff. I have assisted others im this forum recently to keep their cost down and I can assist if that is what you are looking for. 

Regards

Al

[SkipGear]

This is about as difficult a car as you can choose to try to create a master by hand. The standing seam ribs, the curve of the roof, the undercuts on the body where it attaches to the frame, and raised door tracks, are all adding up to make a very difficult build.

I've built an I-5b wagontop caboose based on severely modified Camden and Amboy 1-17 kit that barely looked like an I-17 to start with. It is not something I would consider worthy of kitting because the curved ribs never would lay down exactly the way I wanted. The ribs are going to be the deal breaker unless you can die cut or photo etch them to make them repeatable. This was done before Archer rivets so that level of detail was not really an option.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

That is a nice job Skip. I have a JnJ model to finish one of these years when I find it again.
Regards
Al

[VonRyan]

Cody,

I can get pattern made from RP and they do not even come close to looking like Shapeways. They are of a quality where you can take them from the RP shop and cast with little or no cleanup. The cost of doing this is reducing daily and in you business plan you work out how many you would need to amertise the cost. You look at the fine products by Hell Gate Models and they have no problem moving their items at $30.00 plus dollars but they are good stuff. I have assisted others im this forum recently to keep their cost down and I can assist if that is what you are looking for. 

Regards

Al

What does RP charge for their services? If they can take those drawings you posted and produce a high-resolution master that can accept an MT fishbelly underframe, then it seems we may have a winner.

Haddon Car Shops is a two-man operation that is being started on the change from between couch cushions and scrap metal, with the objective of producing interesting prototypes that otherwise would never get coverage in N except by the most intrepid scratchbuilder.
We seek to bring a high-fidelity yet low-cost product to market for the masses.


-Cody F.
Haddon Car Shops

[Chris333]

Sorry to say, but I would not want a resin copy of an RP model. I have a z scale RP round roof B&O boxcar that I have already spent many hours sanding smooth. Just haven't thrown it away yet.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Chris,
It all depends how the pattern is produced. It is no different to producing a multi piece kit assembling it and then casting it. If you are going to use the everyday common finish produced through some of these so called great RP manufacturers then you are going to get what you paid for.



While the top photo is not a brilliant shot the lower two castings were taken straight from the RP Pattern and after a little cleanup and a grey primer coat they were painted. As good as if not better that FNS considering the detail that is apparent. The Aistralian N Scale market is pretty darn small with only a few hundred active members if that. The details of the bottom loco are as good as my brass model.

So my point is if you are looking for good models they can be cast from urethane and they are very good.

Chris might I ask who produced the RP model. Do not say if you do not want to but I am pretty sure I can pick it in one.

Regards

Al