B&O Wagontop Boxcar - Double door version

[davefoxx]

Sorry if off topic, but looking at the pictures, it is obvious that the doors have to clear the ribs.  Is there some sort of door jamb that projects out from the carbody, so that the car can be "sealed" when the doors are closed?

Thanks in advance,
DFF

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Dave,
Who Knows how the doors were sealed. There does not appear to be many covered pics around of the wagon. This is the only info I can find that is anywhere near sensible:

Between 1936 and 1937 the B&O rebuilt 1,290 of its aging M-15B box cars into M-15K box cars (370000-370989 & 371000-371249) and M-15L auto cars (379000-379049). These were new ‘Wagontop’ car bodies on top of the existing M-15 fishbelly center sill underframes.

From 1937-1938, the B&O also constructed 2,000 additional Wagontops, classed M-53, numbers 380000-381999. These cars were like the M-15K class except that they were built new from the rails up with Duryea underframes. In 1953 an additional 1,000 cars were built as class M-53A and numbered 385000-385999. Between 1941 and 1945, one hundred twenty-five cars were modified, reclassed as C-16, renumbered to 1875-1999 and assigned to express service. Starting in May 1947 they were returned to general service.

Starting in 1955, the M-15K box cars began to run afoul of the 40-year old underframe rule. Between 1955 and 1957 all but eighteen M-15Ks were rebuilt with entirely new underframes, thereby extending their service lives.

This info comes from this site:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/bo380601main.html

There appears to be quite a discernible difference in that the M53 and all the single door cars have 10 panels while the M15L/M has 12 panels. This begs the question what width was the panels and what length is the car. The other point which is raised by the above link is:  "Is the car on a fishbelly underframe as the writings suggest".

Tried the B&O Hysterical Society but all I got was a computer generated reply. Still searching.

Regards

Al

[wcfn100]

Sorry if off topic, but looking at the pictures, it is obvious that the doors have to clear the ribs.  Is there some sort of door jamb that projects out from the carbody, so that the car can be "sealed" when the doors are closed?

Thanks in advance,
DFF

Sure, it would be just like the single door version or any box car really.  This shot shows the left jamb.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1895242

Jason

[davefoxx]

Thanks, Jason.  That was exactly what I suspected was going on with the door and jamb.  If only they were still running in my era of the 1980s.  Those cars are really distinctive and cool.

I actually do remember one parked long-term on a siding of the B&O (now CSX Philly Subdivision) in Newark, Delaware when I was young.  That would have been at least the 1970s, and I don't recall the last time I saw it, perhaps in the 1980s.  If only I had the foresight as a child to get a picture.   

DFF

[Alwyn Cutmore]

So Dave it is you we are to blame for not having photos of the real thing. lol.

I really do not want to buy a F&C Kit to confirm details.

Regards

Al

[VonRyan]

Konrad's original research materials were handed off to a much younger B&O enthusiast, and I have him checking for the original reference photos.

To address the concerns about the detail, the original master no longer exists so a new one will have to be made.
The master was an old brass and wood single-door kit that was cast and bashed to make the master which means that the casting of the double-door version were all 2nd generation castings.

I am working to create a new master that will allow for the casting to be 1st generation and I am planning to use the same products as DKS uses for molding and casting.

Any details that don't look up to snuff on the casting will be removed from the master to make a new mold, and will have to be cast as separate detail parts.


With this and any future projects, Konrad is involved in an advisory role. He is passing on his knowledge to myself and Chris.

The product that I am looking to put forth to the community is not claimed to be affiliated with the former Camden & Amboy Models.


Early estimate for the kits are $10.


All that being said, the most likely 2nd project would be either I1a conversion-shells for Minitrix decapods, or Reading sand-hatches for Micro-Trains 55t 2-bay hoppers.



-Cody F.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Hi Folks,

A bit more info has come to hand. To-day I joined the B&O Yahoo Group and asked questions. I.e.

I have recently been involved in a discussion on the railwire regarding the B&O M15L/M Wagon Top Box Car. It started out that one modeller wanted to convert a M53 into a 4 door box car. The only reference I could find to a 4 door wagon top box car was the M15L/M and the only photo references I have been able to find of the cars is a model from F&C. That model shows that there are very defined differences between the cars apart from the number of doors. First there is the number of panels, (M53 = 10 panels and the M15L/M = 12 panels). Secondly the other reference I was able to find was at:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/bo380601main.html
and this only refers to the cars but does not give any photos. There is some reference that the cars may have had a fishbelly centre sill and gives their road numbers as 379000 - 379049. While they were not a prolific car they were quite unique and would be an interesting vehicle mixed in with other auto-mobile cars in a consist.
Is there a site where photos of these cars can be found a a general arrangement drawing can be located. Did they only have plain doors or were they fitted with other variants. Were they 40ft cars or were they longer 50fy cars.

The reply was as follows.

The B&O had 180 of the M-15M 40' 40 ton Auto cars rebuilt from the
M-15D 40 foot wood cars with the steel fishbelly underframes.
They had 12' door openings but were about a foot taller at 15'-1 3/4"
because they were equipped with Evans Loaders.

All other data looks accurate.

.

Now that only deals with the M14M. There was not specific reference to the M15L

Just to add to the confusion.

Regards

Al

[peteski]

Konrad's original research materials were handed off to a much younger B&O enthusiast, and I have him checking for the original reference photos.

I am working to create a new master that will allow for the casting to be 1st generation and I am planning to use the same products as DKS uses for molding and casting.

Any details that don't look up to snuff on the casting will be removed from the master to make a new mold, and will have to be cast as separate detail parts.

With this and any future projects, Konrad is involved in an advisory role. He is passing on his knowledge to myself and Chris.

The product that I am looking to put forth to the community is not claimed to be affiliated with the former Camden & Amboy Models.

Early estimate for the kits are $10.
-Cody F.

You're not going to charge at least $50 for that resin cast kit?!?! 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself... 

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Hi Folks,
Hope to have a GA drawing later to-day. Still cannot find any real life photos.
Regards
Al

[TrainCat2]

The B&O started upgrading the 1915 M-15A/B double sheathed boxcars in 1936-37 to the Wagon Top cars. Since the M-15A/B fishbelly underframe was 18in narrower, this gave them their distinctive indented lower sides. They also started life with flat doors that did not hold-up well at all. When the M-15A/B underframes reached their limit, the underframes were swapped out in a retrofit in 1955 and that eliminated the indents. The B&O also swapped out the flat doors on the single doors for the lighter Youngstown Door

The M-15M DD had 12 panels, flat steel ends and always retained their flat doors. Overland made a B&O M-15M DD, but incorrectly labeled it a M-15L. This build would be for 1955 or later.


And there was the M-15BA with plug doors, 12 panels and flat steel ends. This build would be for 1955 or earlier.


There was also the M-15K with 10 panels and corrugated ends. This build would be for 1955 or earlier.


So choosing the the features WILL specify the timeframe the car was on the road.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Hi Folks,

There is a question about the F&C coding as it would appear the it is a straight M15L



There was a bit of a hiccup there. But the above GA drawings should sort out the difference between the two. The M15M is a bit over 7" taller than the M15L as it was fitted with evans autoloaders. Also if the drawing are anywhere near correct there is a difference in the roof profile. The drawings have been cleaned up a bit because the scans were so dirty.

The plans were send to me compliments of a newly acquired acquaintance in the B&O Yahoo Group who so readily offered to help. He has just provided me with a little more help with a photo of a M15L.



Hope this helps.

Regards

Al

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Bob,

From your pic:

and

and the plans:




I think the overland model maybe just that a M15L.

Regards

Al

[Chris333]

I like the fishbelly frame. Count me in for a kit.

[robert3985]

Either pre or post 1955 fits my era (up to Dec 31, 1956), so I'm in for the craftsman kit (at least a couple...maybe three??).  Ten bucks isn't much, and I think you're gonna be lucky to offer them at that price.  I'm willing to pay a bit more for accuracy and perfect quality assurance.

[Chris333]

Yeah I don't mind paying more if they are nice kits. I could go for more if they weren't so rare.