Stuff AT&SF N modelers want and nobody makes

[thomasjmdavis]

Over on the product discussion, we were supposed to be talking about Railsmith cars, but several of us went on a tangent talking about AT&SF 44 seat chair cars, and how we wish someone made them.  So rather than take that thread completely down the rabbit hole, I thought I would port it over here, and add to it all the other stuff that one or another MANUFACTURER should/could be making in N scale, but isn't.

EDIT: Up above, where it now says "one or another Manufacturer", I originally had "Somebody"- I did not mean that as one person or company was responsible for everything missing, what I meant was appropriate manufacturers making appropriate products- like Kato making add on passenger cars, or BLI porting some of their HO ATSF steam to N scale, or resin casters making resin kits, or 3D printers making detail parts, etc.

So, I am going to start with the 44 seat chair cars, but feel free to post about your favorite steam engines, Bx-11s, heavyweight combines and all the other missing AT&SF models.  And discuss resources for the rare and hard to find stuff.  Anyone know of a hobby shop with a bunch of M&R head end car sides sitting in a box?

That said, yes, the 44 seat chair car, and the vast majority of AT&SF streamlined cars, are or have been available as sides of kits from Union Station Products, M&R or Des Plaines Hobbies, if one is willing to take on such projects.

In response to points/questions raised on the other thread:

@sp org div
Im still kinda scratching my head why no one has been interested in doing these PS 44 seat chair cars also.
I have been pushing for these same cars from every angle (including Lowell), as they were run in multiples on Santa Fe’s El Capitan and the chief, and of coarse lived on to run behind Amtraks coast starlight until hep came along. I would be in for a half dozen or more amtk skirtless cars with the black underframe / trucks in a heartbeat. This seems like a no brainer to go with all the kato, walthers, and conncor atsf cars that have been produced, as they could easily be sold in multi packs to fill out these common train consists.

@Tad_T
There were normally at least four of those cars on the Texas Chief, as well.

Before I say anything else, let me make the point that I will be happy enough with my build-my-own 44 seat coaches, so I am not a likely customer.  And (in case some manufacturer is thinking of doing this) I have no interest at all in "foobies" for the 44 seat chair cars- lettering a generic fluted coach won't get a very good review from me.  This always comes to mind when talking about these cars because of an amusing conversation with someone (I remember it as one of the staff, but maybe just a bystander) at the Walthers booth at a big train show 10 or 12 years ago, back when what are now the Railsmith cars were introduced by Walthers.  Fellow was trying to convince me that the Walthers cars were the best available representation of ATSF "coaches" (which kinda let me know he wasn't familiar with ATSF) and 10-6 sleepers (an odd fact, but ATSF did not own a single Pullman Standard 10-6 sleeper.  All their 10-6s came from Budd or ACF).  Keep in mind that the Kato Super Chief and Budd sleepers (need skirting modified around the trucks), and (I am pretty sure) the Con-Cor twin window chair car, were already in production, and indeed, running on my tracks at home.

The 44 seat (augmented by the 1953 Budd order of 46/48 seat chair cars that Con-Cor has produced as "twin window coach") were the standard chair cars for most ATSF long distance trains- especially after they were freed up from El Cap service, initially by some of the Budd cars (1953), then by the high level equipment (1956).  So they saw service on the Chief (from 1954), Texas Chief (from late 40s on), Grand Canyon (by 1960 if not earlier), San Francisco Chief (from early runs in 1954 until end of service, more Budd than PS, according to what I've read, but not uncommon), and later on as coach service on the Super Chief or sections in some Super Chief/El-Capitan combined trains.  When I was a teen in the mid/late 60s (not to be confused with now being in my mid-late 60s), took a California trip where the Super Chief and El Cap went westbound in 2 sections and returned in 3- the third section being entirely 44 and 48 seat PS and Budd chair cars (with its own diner, lounge, etc.).

[Ed Kapuscinski]

So the 44 seat coach is like the PRR P70 for ATSF fans?

[basementcalling]

But ATSF modelers had the Bachmann Northern long before any other high profile steamers hit the market. 



I'll show myself out.

[thomasjmdavis]

So the 44 seat coach is like the PRR P70 for ATSF fans?

I don't know if I would go that far- but it is a sort of post WWII equivalent in a way.  PRR had a lot more P70s.  A closer equivalent might be the 44 seat UP smoothside car that Kato did, or the Railsmith NP 56 seat coach that recently came out.  A distinct car, and appeared at some time in most ATSF passenger trains of the 50s and 60s, from Chiefs to locals. 

[thomasjmdavis]

But ATSF modelers had the Bachmann Northern long before any other high profile steamers hit the market. 



I'll show myself out.

The Con-Cor/Kato J3 Hudson made its appearance in 1969 (per Spookshow's site), 3 years before the Bachmann, errrr....., "locomotive".  So it's not like no one had figured out how to build an N scale steamer.

[randgust]

I had a first run Bachmann 4-8-4.  Yeah.   I spent more time modifying that to run right than I'd ever want to admit, and still ended up selling it when I got my Hallmark.

[Sokramiketes]

A Kato quality 44 seat coach, Budd superdome, and a Blue series sleeper would fill in most of the ATSF gaps in passenger equipment... at least for the heyday!

[CodyO]

So the 44 seat coach is like the PRR P70 for ATSF fans?

More like a P85, which we kinda have. But the sides are messed up so the windows dont line up.

[thomasjmdavis]

A Kato quality 44 seat coach, Budd superdome, and a Blue series sleeper would fill in most of the ATSF gaps in passenger equipment... at least for the heyday!

Yes, where are our Big Domes?  You would think that just those wanting to upgrade their existing Bachmann models would more than make whatever minimum quantity would be required. Very surprised that Kato never did it as an add on.

[kiwi_al]

okay I'll bite 
Missing ATSF Steam in Nscale:
These are Santa Fe specific - correct drivers, sand domes etc.

4-8-4 Northern 3751 class - early 73" drivers spoked
4-8-4 Northern 3776 class - 80" drivers boxpok
2-10-4 Texas Type
2-10-10-2 3000 class
2-10-2 3800 class (this is different from the Bachmann light and the Concor is too long.
2-10-0 Decapod - 57" drivers
2-6-2 Prairie (a proper Prarie!!)
2-6-6-2 Prairie Mallet (no a bachmann 2-6-6-2 is completely wrong)
4-4-2 Atlantic - quite different to Pennsy version
4-4-6-2 Mallet
4-6-4 Hudson - Proper Santa Fe styling - non streamlined
2-8-2 Mikado - proper sand domes
4-6-2 Pacific - Santa Fe details and sand domes.

just a short list for now 

[jagged ben]

Is this just for passenger equipment or can I throw more modern freight stuff?   

GP40X
SF30C
10 unit Impak spinecar

[Chinapig]

kiwi_al,

ATSF N Scale Models do a few conversion kits that may fill a couple of your requirements, specifically the 2-10-2 Class 3800 and the Mikado.  Ok, it's not the same as being able to pick them up from the shop shelf, but I've welcomed the projects during lockdown .
https://atsfnscalemodels.com/
So far, I've done four of the loco conversions and am really pleased with the results.
Cheers, Ted

[transitionalman]

I second the:

GP40X
SF30C
10 unit Impak spinecar

And would like to add:

GP50 (Kato did one a lifetime ago on a different planet - would like to see FVM or Atlas take this on)
SD45s (ScaleTrains?)
More Centralia Car Shops Cabooses (Brown Scheme, Red with Yellow Cupolas)
Fruehauf 45' Trailers
48' Trailer Spine Cars (TTX Scheme - used a LOT in the 1990s)
SD45-2Bs (Intermountain?)
Single Unit Impak Spinecars (ATSF Rebuilds)
CF7s (Many shortlines and Amtrak also had them)
Cleburne Cab Geeps (Many shortlines had these as well)
Either a 4-axle or 6-axle slug (not 100% certain how these could be done - maybe just a dummy since there might not be room for a decoder)
ATSF Theater Car for an Office Car Train

[Point353]

[thomasjmdavis]

ATSF N Scale Models do a few conversion kits that may fill a couple of your requirements, specifically the 2-10-2 Class 3800 and the Mikado.  Ok, it's not the same as being able to pick them up from the shop shelf, but I've welcomed the projects during lockdown .
https://atsfnscalemodels.com/
So far, I've done four of the loco conversions and am really pleased with the results.
Cheers, Ted

Anyone who is a Santa Fe modeler should take a look at Dirk's kits ( atsfnscalemodels.com ).  He also has several signature freight cars and core kits for heavyweight chair cars, in addition to his locomotive shell and conversion kits.