Author Topic: FreeMo MVP Needs  (Read 9100 times)

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Jbub

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2020, 11:54:29 PM »
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While a necessity for roundy roundy, I would rather see yards at each end rather than a loop.  Especially if you can pull off a rig of 10 scale miles or so.  Trains don't run to loops, they run to terminals.  If you have a loop, maybe it's at the end of a branch, but wouldn't it be better to have a long siding where you can run around your train?

To me, if you want to run loops, you do TTrak or NTrak.  if you want to run trains, you're going from terminal to terminal with whatever work there is along the way.  That's the beauty of FreemoN.  You're connecting stuff to build a railroad, not a display loop.

Plus, consider scheduling participants.  Run your train, pull into the terminal, and break it down.  Got more time?  Run the next train.  The downside is traffic control and figuring who belongs to what rolling stock at the end of the show...

@Ed Kapuscinski , the Ridgeley/Windsor St. Yard, having been cut in half at least twice, could become two "end of run" terminals by simply building a portable benchwork under each end.  If you wanted, you could stitch a balloon loop to the main, make it 4 or 6 tracks for staging, and have functioning classification switching as trains "arrive" from staging to the yard, pick up your cut of cars and head onto the layout.

Lee
I like the idea of yards at the end. End loops are great for keeping things moving so maybe a combo of the two could work? End terminal for "destination" trains like some manifest freight's, locals and passenger and an end loop for through trains like the one @Mark W 'a dad built for FreemoNebraska.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2020, 09:23:04 AM »
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@Ed Kapuscinski , the Ridgeley/Windsor St. Yard, having been cut in half at least twice, could become two "end of run" terminals by simply building a portable benchwork under each end.  If you wanted, you could stitch a balloon loop to the main, make it 4 or 6 tracks for staging, and have functioning classification switching as trains "arrive" from staging to the yard, pick up your cut of cars and head onto the layout.

Lee

I thought about that, but knowing the actual construction of it I can attest that I would NOT want to subject it to repeated moves. I have a feeling it wouldn't hold up well. It's like Ikea furniture. You can move it a few times, but not indefinitely.

However, if you wanted to give it a shot, it's yours!

wm3798

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2020, 01:07:31 PM »
+1
It wouldn't take much to beef it up.  The trick would be transition modules at the ends.

Still no real estate for the yard, but the kid heads to Chicago for school in September...  If we can sort out this daggone global health thing, plans could start accelerating for a basement with a couple of bedrooms above...
Lee
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2020, 03:36:58 PM »
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By the way, the reason why loops are needed is because, while ops sessions usually last about 4 hours, train shows (where you usually setup) are often all day affairs.

Nothing makes your layout seem lame as nothing moving on it. And that happens when people have to hover over it. At least until you get enough people there keep trading off.

At least that's been the case in my experience.

davefoxx

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2020, 04:00:44 PM »
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To me, if you want to run loops, you do TTrak or NTrak.  if you want to run trains, you're going from terminal to terminal with whatever work there is along the way.  That's the beauty of FreemoN.  You're connecting stuff to build a railroad, not a display loop.

I agree with your statement to generally operate from terminal to terminal, but why not both?  A yard at each end with a loop built around it.  You are likely going to have unit trains or passenger trains that would not need to be broken down and instead turned.


@Ed Kapuscinski , the Ridgeley/Windsor St. Yard, having been cut in half at least twice, could become two "end of run" terminals by simply building a portable benchwork under each end.  If you wanted, you could stitch a balloon loop to the main, make it 4 or 6 tracks for staging, and have functioning classification switching as trains "arrive" from staging to the yard, pick up your cut of cars and head onto the layout.

I've operated on that yard as it existed in both Ridgeley Yard and Windsor Street Yard incarnations.  I have a hard time believing that you could salvage two decent terminals from each half of that yard.  It seems to me that you would have two yards with yard tracks that are too short.  Besides, one half of that yard was mostly an engine facility.

As Ed pointed out, that yard wasn't built to be portable.  You're only making it heavier and less portable by trying to turn it into something that can survive multiple moves.  I say start from scratch and do it right.

DFF

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wm3798

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2020, 04:13:47 PM »
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I was just riffin' man!
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CRL

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2020, 05:26:52 PM »
+1
But loops aren’t prototypical he objects...

Per Ed’s law...

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davefoxx

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2020, 05:50:43 PM »
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I wonder where UP put the reversing section?  :D

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SandyEggoJake

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2020, 05:52:26 PM »
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+1 on this topic.  In addition to a yard, you'll obviously need a scale-able loconet based command system for ops.

I've been chatting up a FreeMo N group in the OC/San Diego/Imperial County area for years and have build a few frames but project stalled out when my main partner in crime moved away.  But have spent much time talking with the N Land Pacific guys who got me started.  Their standard is a bit more refined than typical FreeMo-N but they have reasons for all given the years they have been out running rains.  http://www.nlandpacific.com/

In particular, re ops, you might find it of interest to review the NLP "district in a box"  http://nlandpacific.com/DIAB/DIAB%20Overview.pdf  http://www.nlandpacific.com/BoosterFarm.html

I'm a noob to DCC (and running NCE), so can't claim I grasp all it's Digi functionality, and it's been some time since I spoke with them about their current DIAB.  But they have spent years refining their system.

Cheers,
Jake Schaible




« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 06:01:22 PM by SandyEggoJake »

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2020, 11:19:40 AM »
+1
I agree with your statement to generally operate from terminal to terminal, but why not both?
DFF

Well... I did draw this up. It's based off of my aborted idea for Mount Vernon Yard in Baltimore.

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In the layout plan the yard tracks were generally for block swapping and local work. In this case they'd be perfect for staging, setup and tear down of trains.

The tracks behind them represent the Mount Vernon Produce Terminal and Flexi-Flow yard. In this case, FINALLY a place for all my damn RBLs... lol.

It'd be a BEAST to build and the long loop, which would duck out under this mess of ramps, would represent the never-built but frequently planned tunnel for NCR trains to go south on the NEC.

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 11:23:15 AM by Ed Kapuscinski »

SirTainly

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2020, 11:50:29 AM »
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the Black Diamonds guys here have 2 such arrangements for the modular setup - basically makes a giant folded dogbone layout. Great for running at shows.

Jbub

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2020, 02:39:01 PM »
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Well... I did draw this up. It's based off of my aborted idea for Mount Vernon Yard in Baltimore.

(Attachment Link)

In the layout plan the yard tracks were generally for block swapping and local work. In this case they'd be perfect for staging, setup and tear down of trains.

The tracks behind them represent the Mount Vernon Produce Terminal and Flexi-Flow yard. In this case, FINALLY a place for all my damn RBLs... lol.

It'd be a BEAST to build and the long loop, which would duck out under this mess of ramps, would represent the never-built but frequently planned tunnel for NCR trains to go south on the NEC.

(Attachment Link)
Oh man! When I look at freemoN, I've always seen the return loop as the determining factor on train length. This makes so much sense to me, it acts as a yard, return loop and alternate destination.
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2020, 02:49:32 PM »
+1
Oh man! When I look at freemoN, I've always seen the return loop as the determining factor on train length. This makes so much sense to me, it acts as a yard, return loop and alternate destination.

I wish I could take credit for the back staging yard idea but it's stolen completely from the Kirkwood Yard that DARN had: there was a yard out front that acted like a super staging yard for metering traffic on the NTRAK lines and then there was a really cool big one that came out the back of the visible yard and ran through the pit. It provided "deep storage" of trains for people who might've gone off for lunch or something and as a place to setup and take down a train without reaching over the layout itself.

Here's one of the few photos I have of it.

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I know @Hiroe was involved in construction. I don't know if it was his idea or he just helped out.

Hiroe

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2021, 08:55:26 PM »
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I wish I could take credit for the back staging yard idea but it's stolen completely from the Kirkwood Yard that DARN had: there was a yard out front that acted like a super staging yard for metering traffic on the NTRAK lines and then there was a really cool big one that came out the back of the visible yard and ran through the pit. It provided "deep storage" of trains for people who might've gone off for lunch or something and as a place to setup and take down a train without reaching over the layout itself.

Here's one of the few photos I have of it.

(Attachment Link)

I know @Hiroe was involved in construction. I don't know if it was his idea or he just helped out.

This yard was kind of a joint bs-session idea between Jim Wildman and I. Kirkwood was useful as a yard, but all the arms reaching over for putting trains on and off the track was tearing up the skyboards, looked unprofessional, and generally interfered with through ops. The rear yard was the solution to that, and worked pretty well.

Finding this old photo in this topic is kind of appropriate, considering how things are in play for some of the other DARN modules.
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Hiroe

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Re: FreeMo MVP Needs
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2021, 09:26:02 PM »
+3
When DARN liquidated the trailer and it's contents, the NECHS bought both of the original DARN Racket end loops. East has a scenic insert for Horseshoe Curve (which we have), and West had the Mesa with the Nn3 (which Dave kept).
Here's East Racket:
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(I don't have a photo of West available, but the frame and track are basically mirror-image opposite East.)

Our intentions with the Rackets, when we bought them, was to strip the Ntrak off and repurpose them for branchline HO/HOn3.
Since then, group opinions about that have changed, and now we're planning to keep them as Ntrak modules, to start a second show layout for N-scale Corridor modeling, similar to our HO layout.
That same HO layout is a four-track NEC mainline, with multiple places to hang single-track Free-Mo branchlines off it. When we set up with Free-Mo clubs, the mainline Corridor traffic frequently interchanges blocks of freight with the switching crews on the Free-Mo branch, using a small yard at the junction point.

If someone wants to tackle building the Ntrak Corridor junction module(s), you fine folks would be welcome to set up with us at shows.
We can even provide the frames for the junction modules, based on our existing 66*R centerline curve/Y module math.
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