Author Topic: Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread  (Read 18777 times)

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Chris333

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2020, 12:47:02 AM »
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Yours may be the only one that runs that nice.  :o

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2020, 01:05:44 AM »
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Oh my gosh! 
I'm embarrassed.... and it's kind of funny.

When I made that video, it didn't run as perfectly as I was expecting.
Tried to move tie to tie and would stall.

Hmmm  track must be dirty.  Cleaned track.

Better- but not perfect. 
Well.... I did remove some weight for the next phase of this project.
Maybe that was it.

NO!   I just realized a grabbed the wrong Shay.
That previous video was of the previous Shay (which DID run pretty good, but not like the new one I just built.).
New video coming.... while I get egg off my face.

 :facepalm:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 08:34:50 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

Chris333

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2020, 01:11:02 AM »
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Lol. I'll be watchin' till you make the custom wood case.

peteski

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2020, 01:15:25 AM »
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Ron, while I applaud your modifications, I'm not sure why you are so against the silicone (rubber) tubing universal coupling.

Brass model locos have been using that type of coupling for decades.  I think it has a lot going for it.  Coupling action is very smooth and has some give to dampen any changes in the loco's load. It has a continuous smooth torque transfer (unlike stiff-material universals).  If a true silicone tubing is used (not cheap rubber) then the tubing should stay soft for every long time.  The only negative I have found in that coupling is slippage on the shafts (if oil got into the tubing).
. . . 42 . . .

peteski

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2020, 01:16:20 AM »
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Lol. I'll be watchin' till you make the custom wood case.

 With laser-etched logos this time!  :)
. . . 42 . . .

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2020, 01:17:04 AM »
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Pete,
Can't speak for other applications.
Just didn't work in these two samples I have.

Ron Bearden
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u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2020, 01:17:47 AM »
+2
THIS is the Shay I've been working on.

You can see it runs even better.

And you can tell them apart from these views because in this video, you can see the connecting rods to the cylinders going up and down.

Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

narrowminded

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2020, 01:19:02 AM »
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That's a busy load of bits! :D  Am I seeing correctly that the crankshaft is only supported at the ends?  And are those well fitted bearings or more like cast in pockets?  :|

If I was to make this it would be from scratch.  The castings are too hard to fixture properly and to hold good tolerance on.  It would all be new material, brass and/ or steel depending on method.  It also seems that a gear needs fitted in the middle and on the prototype the valve linkage is supposed to ride on a pair of staggered eccentrics but I can't tell for sure from the pics if that is detailed that finely.  The gear would be salvaged or if needed, sourced new and appropriate material selected.  It probably would be best to see the assembly and as it sits in the frame to get this right, if there's even a chance.  As I see more of the assembly I'm beginning to wonder if any of these parts and assembly methods were accurate enough to justify an expectation that they would work at all. :facepalm:  But since when did that stop us? :D
Mark G.

narrowminded

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2020, 01:27:25 AM »
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After I posted that I saw your two videos.  I can see what you meant about the one having a solid through shaft with no moving connecting rods.  But on the second one with the functioning crank it looks like the valve linkage isn't moving.  Are they not on eccentrics? :?
Mark G.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2020, 02:27:35 AM »
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No eccentrics. 
Valve linkage does not move.
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

narrowminded

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2020, 03:10:42 AM »
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No eccentrics. 
Valve linkage does not move.

Well that simplifies that part. ;)  Depending on what else is there, maybe we could make it move. :o   It looks like it has a hub that it spins on.
Mark G.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2020, 06:32:53 PM »
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With laser-etched logos this time!  :)

Actually, I have connections to someone with a laser engraver.   8)
Ron Bearden
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u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2020, 06:38:48 PM »
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That's a busy load of bits! :D  Am I seeing correctly that the crankshaft is only supported at the ends?  And are those well fitted bearings or more like cast in pockets?  :|

If I was to make this it would be from scratch.  The castings are too hard to fixture properly and to hold good tolerance on.  It would all be new material, brass and/ or steel depending on method.  It also seems that a gear needs fitted in the middle and on the prototype the valve linkage is supposed to ride on a pair of staggered eccentrics but I can't tell for sure from the pics if that is detailed that finely.  The gear would be salvaged or if needed, sourced new and appropriate material selected.  It probably would be best to see the assembly and as it sits in the frame to get this right, if there's even a chance.  As I see more of the assembly I'm beginning to wonder if any of these parts and assembly methods were accurate enough to justify an expectation that they would work at all. :facepalm:  But since when did that stop us? :D

Mark, there are no bearings.   The cylinder frame has two square cut-outs (yellow arrow below).   The 1mm shaft just sits in that.



So, what's in this photo is all you would make overall (except for the missing drive gear- which I have an extra)-  if you decided to proceed at all.
Of course, this is the straight shaft, but you have the idea.  No bearings, nothing extra.   Just 3 counterweights and one gear.    The only thing needed beyond this photo is longer shafts on the ends.  Better to have too much and trim than not enough.



« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 06:40:21 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2020, 06:50:27 PM »
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Time to add a sound decoder.

Obviously, space is tight in this locomotive. 

I considered getting a Doehler-Haass decoder because they make one of the smallest sound decoders.   My preliminary measurements showed that this German decoder could reside inside the boiler.
https://doehler-haass.de/cms/pages/produkte/soundsystem/sd05a.php

But just like other companies, in order to program it adequately, you must also purchase their proprietary programmer.  That all adds up.  And I thought… since the programmers of various companies are expensive, it would be better to pick an overall company and go with that one.

Thus, I decided to go with the ESU Loksound micro v5, purchasing the decoder and the programmer.
 


This is the smallest sound decoder ESU currently makes.   Unfortunately, it’s much larger than I would like.
It would not fit in the boiler- even if I used a motor tool to cut down the boiler casting wall.  (come on ESU, make one smaller).



I explored placing it in that big gap between the firebox and the front truck.  But still too big.



In fact, when I got this decoder in hand, I was especially disappointed in the thickness.  What makes it so fat is the wiring harness.  It is a snap on module.  This makes their design much easier, but I was hoping for a plain old hard wired decoder with no frills.



I knew it would fit in the tender.   The truck would have to be removed.  Then the weight would be removed and the decoder fitted in the spot where the weight currently resides.  Also, would need to add weight along the inside of the tender shell.    The down side would be that there would be 8 wires running between the tender and the cab, and even though they might be light weight wires, the tender is light and I didn’t want the pressure of the wires to twist or hinder the tender.

So there was one more place to try before going with the tender. 
And that would be the firebox.    It would be great if the decoder could slide under the plate for the worm.



I have to admit that this was a scary option.  Because the decoder is so fat, I knew a sizable opening would have to be made-- and that a good deal of the lead weight would need to be removed from inside the firebox.
It took a lot of emotions to cut through that firebox wall with my motor tool- and to be honest, I probably would not have done it had I not had 2 more frames as a backup.   If I destroyed this one, I would just move the drive train parts to a new frame.

As you can see in the following shot, I have to remove a LOT of material- which was not easy.    I placed my motor tool bits in the chuck at the very edge so they could be as long as possible.  It was very difficult to get up in there and NOT damage other parts of the frame.



Working on this end was not enough to get the decoder inserted far enough.   So then I switched to the hole in the base plate for the notch in the worm bearing.  I used a bit with a small head to get the head into that square hole and remove the last remaining lead weight that was blocking the decoder.

I damaged the hole a little bit, but it did not effect the worm bearing- and in the end, I succeeded in removing the material in the way.  Also, a few grams of weight were lost- so I’ll add weight to the boiler later to compensate.



Actually, before I could fully insert the decoder for test fitting, I had to provide an exit for the decoder wires, so I cut a hole in the frame on the back side toward the motor.
Ron Bearden
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u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2020, 06:56:25 PM »
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I shrink wrapped the bundle of wires to make it easier to thread each time I test fitted the decoder.



In the end, I successfully got that decoder in there.    Not all the way, but enough that the front truck was not obstructed and the shell ALMOST went in place perfectly.



Here is the decoder slide in place with the loco assembled.  I JUST made it.



Great.    Time to move to the next step!
Soldering and speaker.



Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.