Author Topic: Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread  (Read 18249 times)

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narrowminded

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2020, 10:37:24 PM »
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I think I could make a new, true running crankshaft if it would be helpful.  I would need some reasonably good dimensions to investigate feasibility or even better, some sample pieces.  Broken but measurable would suffice for weighing feasibility.  It would be a fun challenge. :| :facepalm:  No, really! :D 8)
Mark G.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2020, 10:44:58 PM »
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Mark,

We might be able to work something out.

At some point in the future (I'm not ready now), I could probably send you a frame with the cylinder assembly- because whatever you make must fit in there.

I also have an extra drive gear (mounted on a broken crankshaft), and three counter weights. What I don't have is a long enough 1mm shaft.  But to be honest, my shaft is too short.  Needs to be longer.

I'll post a photo of what I could possibly send you at some point.

What would you make it out of?
Steel?  (something harder than the brass original?)

Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2020, 10:57:43 PM »
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I think I could make a new, true running crankshaft if it would be helpful.  I would need some reasonably good dimensions to investigate feasibility or even better, some sample pieces.  Broken but measurable would suffice for weighing feasibility.  It would be a fun challenge. :| :facepalm:  No, really! :D 8)

Mark,

These are some surplus parts I have.   What I don't have any extras of is the piston connecting rods- which appear to be a hooked piece of brass which has been pinched slightly around the shaft in the counterweight.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 10:47:15 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2020, 10:59:43 PM »
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I'm winding down tonight, but we still have more to go:

Overall truck construction.
Wheel issues
power pickup

and yes.... adding sound.   :trollface:   (though that is a work in progress- fingers crossed)
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

narrowminded

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2020, 11:50:01 PM »
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These are some surplus parts I have.   What I don't have any extras of is the pistons- which appear to be a hooked piece of brass which has been pinched slightly around the shaft in the counterweight.


Ron, when you say "pistons" are you referring to the connecting rods as pictured further up in the thread, by chance?  They had what looked like an open end to "snap" or pinch over the crank journal.

Also, just for some proportion, do you have some dimensions of the crank throws with counterweights?   Nominal will do, just for a sense of size.  You mentioned a 1mm shaft that I assume to be the main crank journal diameters.  Maybe an overall length, too.  I'm just trying to get a sense of the proportions of the assembly.

As far as materials, steel would be nice for strength and maybe wear but brass is also easy to work with so... I don't know yet.  :|  Maybe even some steel pins/ journals with brass throws.  I'll have to weigh out all of the details and make a plan from there. 8)  It's also possible that I'll throw in the towel before to start but with the little I've seen this far I suspect it can be done. :)
Mark G.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2020, 12:48:12 AM »
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Yes.  Wrong word.  Connecting rods.

I'll try to get you some dimensions tomorrow night or by the next day at the latest.
I'll use my caliper.
And yes, same shaft as worm shaft.  Every shaft is 1mm.
Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2020, 10:23:03 PM »
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OK Mark.  Here you go.
Took photos pretty straight on.
Then measured with caliper to nearest 1/100th millimeter.













Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2020, 10:25:45 PM »
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I guess if you're really going to possibly attempt this, then it must be in two pieces- because you have to get the drive gear in there.



Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2020, 10:32:43 PM »
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And if this will be a true crankshaft, then the casting stabilizer must be cut on the rounded end.

Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2020, 10:46:16 PM »
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Missed labeling one.

Here it is.

Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2020, 11:28:47 PM »
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Overall truck construction

Here is an assembled and installed truck.
In order to remove that truck, you must first remove the middle cross brace.


Now you can get to the truck retaining screw.   The fiber washer reduces the wobble.



Be careful.   The front and rear truck have power pick-up attached.
I should add, that to remove the truck, you must unsolder the pick-up wire (which is for the birds).   I installed plugs and sockets to avoid that unsoldering hassle.


Here is the plug and socket set I use.  It is a TCS 2-pin micro set.   They are expensive, but I use them a good bit in my modeling.


There is no extra power pick-up on the tender truck (hold that thought!  ;)  )



Here is the top side of a truck.  Three screws hold the middle brace.   You can also see a pivot restraining pin.  You need this or your side rod couplings will constantly come apart.  This is the front truck and it has the tall pin.  The cab truck has a short pin.



When the middle braces are removed, you're left with the sideframes.   (These are my extras- the lower one is damaged).


I kitbashed a new pickup for the cab truck.  I installed a TCS 4-pin micro socket mounted onto a thin circuit board and superglued to the brace.
The 4 pin is more stable than the 2 pin.  Into this socket, I plug 1-pin wires from the motor and from the tender truck.



Here is my wiring harness inside.  The gray wire goes up front to the front truck.
The brack wire goes through that hole in the back of the frame and to the 4-pin socket I installed in the rear cab truck.
The socket goes to a plug on the motor to ONE motor wire.  ( The other motor wire goes to a wire soldered to the frame.)


The SINGLE best way to help your Shay run overall better is to install a pickup to the tender so that you can send power from the insulated wheels to the motor- and increase of 50%  (from 2 trucks to 3).





Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2020, 11:37:16 PM »
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Here is another tweak I discovered for optimal performance.

After many frustrating times working on trucks, I noticed the overall orientation of the truck was twisted a bit.
I finally concluded the problem was in the wheelsets.

Study this photo.


The end with the crown gear is the solid side.  Thus the bottom wheels in this photo are the insulated ends.
The problem is small but lies in the solid side.
Notice in this photo that the solid wheels are not pressed onto the axles equally.

The left wheel is pressed on ALL the way.   The right wheel has a small gap.
That gap makes a big difference in a truck having trouble and running perfectly.

I thus used my puller to press the solid wheel slightly off of the terminus position on the shaft (meaning until there was a small gap.).

This is what you want.




« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 11:38:59 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2020, 11:50:29 PM »
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Now if you're thinking that tiny tiny M1.0 screws and little braces probably cannot hold that truck together completely tightly- and you'd be right.
You don't want to over tighten these tiny screws.

Thus the whole truck can be twisted a bit side to side.

What you want is for everything to be square with the sideframes perpendicular to the cross braces.


In fact, in this truck, I can see that it is ever so slightly twisted (red line exaggerated).
Look at the flanges on the wheels- they are not all exactly even.


The solution is to gently move in the opposite direction.  So I would move the top sideframe to the left and the bottom to the right.
Since you have to slightly manhandle the truck to get it all assembled, this squaring up would be the last step before placing the loco on the track for a test run.

 

« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 08:32:46 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2020, 12:20:50 AM »
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Miscellaneous

Here is a shot of my first Wiseman Shay.  And I can tell you that the rubber hose coupling between the motor and the worm is awful.
Not only potentially uneven.  But also there is a risk that it will rub the base.



One of the solutions is to cut a trough for the coupling so it cannot rub on the base. (blue arrow).



By the way, in that shot above, I noticed some circular scoring in the spot where the worm gear rides.
And sure enough, then same scoring is under the gear.  Obviously, some grit had gotten under there (yikes).



Now, since I hate that rubber hose connection, I made another change.    There was a small brass tube soldered to the end of the worm shaft.  I unsoldered it and got it off.   I then added a U-joint.  This is from an old Atlas/Kato RS-3/GP7/GP9.   Since the shaft is 1mm and the u-joint needs 1.5mm, I added an adapter tube.



My kit Shay did not have a motor.  I bought two.  I bought a Faulhaber motor (hasn't arrived yet from overseas) and a smaller coreless motor.  This one is 7mm x 16mm.  I feared it would be too small but it works great.  K&S brass tubing made for a good housing.  I installed the matching RS-3 u-joint with adapter, as well as a TCS 2 pin micro plug.


Works well.



The 4 pin socket is ready for an analog plug or a decoder.


Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

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Re: The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2020, 12:41:44 AM »
+2
Ladies and gentlemen,
This concludes this part of our tour.

Please leave your trays in the upright and locked position.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 12:43:41 AM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
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"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.