Author Topic: PRR D16sb research for a build  (Read 15346 times)

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randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #120 on: January 02, 2021, 02:41:46 PM »
+3
It's on, I can see I've got a little more straightening to do in a couple spots....wow, that was hard.  Glad it's done.   If I don't have to make anything else like that for a while I'm good.



I'm not sure at all about the lines.   I've studied 1223, and it looks like the two forward lines end up routed to the main air reservoir under the boiler.   But the entire piping of these gets interesting; I know there has to be a steam heat line and an air brake line but there's one more line than that on many shots.
As far as I can tell, the handrails were the electrical conduits, there are junction boxes visible around the dynamo coming off the handrails.
Whatever PRR was up to, it was evolving, because studying 1223's piping only proved it's not the same even though it kinda looks like it in general.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #121 on: January 06, 2021, 08:18:17 AM »
+7
OK, so I think I have to prove it actually runs......

(excuse the ATSF scenery and cars, this will be primarily a T-trak module PRR baby)


After about three evenings of running this hard, I came to one conclusion - flanges that fine on a lead truck are just too derailment-prone, even with a weight on it - tends to climb the outside rail on curves at speed.  I found some nice metal 33" wheels, blackened, with a wider tread and deeper flange and made a different lead truck.  That works flawlessly and I didn't go back to the tiny Rivarossi wheels either.   The narrow tread was another problem with my turnouts, I had a lot of frog drop but surprisingly no derailments.   But other than that, no issues at all, and all I have left is to finish up the tender and some cab handrails.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2021, 09:51:08 AM »
0
Watching that on a 65" was a wonderful experience.

Once it's done, we need to arrange a photo shoot with it on my Strasburg NTRAK module.

*****, that reminds me... maybe it's time to make some Strasburg TTRAK modules. Hmm.

Lemosteam

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2021, 10:09:29 AM »
0
Wonderful job Randy!

@Ed Kapuscinski and then you can add your dad's H3 to the experience too!

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #124 on: January 06, 2021, 12:03:49 PM »
0
Wonderful job Randy!

@Ed Kapuscinski and then you can add your dad's H3 to the experience too!


I almost have to make an 1187 version now!

mmagliaro

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2021, 01:22:23 PM »
0
Coming out beautifully, Randy.  Runs great.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2021, 09:39:58 PM »
+9
OK, well, here and there I've been slowly finishing up the tender.    I got Shapeways and some etched parts, added the final details, and it turns out the most difficult parts is squeezing everything in the tender body and getting it secured down as a 'snap fit'.  I 'think' I got it.

Keystone Details PRR stuff has been great, the water scoop on the tender is just terrific and the other Shapeways parts are almost all his:
http://www.keystonedetails.com/products/n-scale-details

Anyway, I'm now to the point where I can't do any more assembly without painting some of the stuff that will be inaccessible - frame, inside of cab, etc. so these are the last shots before I have to tear it all back down and start painting.   Hopefully it all goes back together this way again!   So, last shots showing the 'secrets' of what went in the soup.









Right now the workbench is groaning under winter custom build projects and painting, so not much time to work on my own stuff.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2021, 10:13:32 PM »
0
Wow. The only thing one could say she's missing is an oil headlight!

Or... some "Strasburg Rail Road" sublettering on the cab :)

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #128 on: February 16, 2021, 09:15:54 AM »
0
Ed, gimme a break here.   As much as I love & respect 1223, my 'dad's engine', from my research, is the 1046, again here in Oil City, PA about 1937 or so.   Studying this compared to 1223 revealed a lot, including this still had the locomotive steps (removed on 1223), position of the compressor, whistle, etc.   And an electric headlight.   And no sexy paint striped PRR scheme either.   Dad's time was 1926-28 riding behind it, no photos from that era, but there were only a handful of D16sb's assigned to Oil City for the Oil City-Olean local and the 1046 was the last to go.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1046s.jpg    And I've never found a RH side shot of it.   Or any shots in this immediate area.

If this project hasn't done anything else, it's exposed me to the absurd individual details of the 'standard railroad of the world' rivaling about any other roster I've seen on a locomotive by locomotive basis over time.   Frankly, I can't believe this one would have still had a water scoop but it's such a cool detail I put it in anyway.

On my L1, I did Badger Brunswick green, and then weathered it down with chalks and it came out looking 'normal', and not really a green engine.  1046 wasn't awful, but it was certainly weathered a bit and hadn't been wiped down in a while.   From the PRR shots I've seen of the era in this region, cleanliness was next to impossible.   But the lettering and numbers are clear, at least the jacket wasn't showing anything other than a coat of soot, and it didn't look like it was on it's last run - which this may have been.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 09:19:50 AM by randgust »

Cajonpassfan

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #129 on: February 16, 2021, 12:34:02 PM »
0
Just stunning!
Otto

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #130 on: February 16, 2021, 12:44:41 PM »
0
Ed, gimme a break here.   As much as I love & respect 1223, my 'dad's engine', from my research, is the 1046, again here in Oil City, PA about 1937 or so.   Studying this compared to 1223 revealed a lot, including this still had the locomotive steps (removed on 1223), position of the compressor, whistle, etc.   And an electric headlight.   And no sexy paint striped PRR scheme either.   Dad's time was 1926-28 riding behind it, no photos from that era, but there were only a handful of D16sb's assigned to Oil City for the Oil City-Olean local and the 1046 was the last to go.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1046s.jpg    And I've never found a RH side shot of it.   Or any shots in this immediate area.

If this project hasn't done anything else, it's exposed me to the absurd individual details of the 'standard railroad of the world' rivaling about any other roster I've seen on a locomotive by locomotive basis over time.   Frankly, I can't believe this one would have still had a water scoop but it's such a cool detail I put it in anyway.

On my L1, I did Badger Brunswick green, and then weathered it down with chalks and it came out looking 'normal', and not really a green engine.  1046 wasn't awful, but it was certainly weathered a bit and hadn't been wiped down in a while.   From the PRR shots I've seen of the era in this region, cleanliness was next to impossible.   But the lettering and numbers are clear, at least the jacket wasn't showing anything other than a coat of soot, and it didn't look like it was on it's last run - which this may have been.

I know, I know :)

That's what Photoshop is for!!!

Someday when we can people again, we can setup a time to do a photo shoot on my Strasburg NTRAK modules.

In the meantime, let me just say again: this is f'ing fantastic.

mmagliaro

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #131 on: February 16, 2021, 02:35:41 PM »
+1
Randy, this is really a nice piece of work.  The wire details are nice and I really like the contour of the Belpaire firebox.  I do have one criticism, if I may.  The stack looks kind of "curvy" to me, probably a product of it being soft white metal.  The stack is such a prominent detail that I think this stands out on a model that otherwise to my eye has such beautiful, crisp details.
This is a terrific engine.  It runs great.  And I've said it before, but people should really pay attention to how beautiful those Rivarossi drivers look.  After 50 years, they really hold their own against current models with such nice see-thru spoked centers.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #132 on: February 16, 2021, 04:44:51 PM »
+3
From anybody but Max, I'd probably take offense, but from Max, I'll just pick up a file and work on it some more before paint.   That's a Detail Associates stack that I had to shorten to come in at the right height above the boiler.    And, I've found out that this is why you want to photo the bejeesus out of something, because you just can't see this stuff (you really can't) looking at it with the naked eye.   But it shows up in a photo.

There's been 1001 things that haven't looked quite right on this project to me, and the camera has found most of them, the most egregious being the cab alignment and proportional size way back when.   Peteski picked on my pilot wheels and I'm glad he did, even though I'm now on my third set before I was satisfied myself.  I still wish I had a better rivet pattern on the tender, but short of custom etching it what I've got is better than anything else I could come up with, and I'm not about to NOT do it over N scale rivet issues.

What you can't see is how demanding I can be on performance.   I'd hate to reveal the number of projects abandoned because they don't work well enough despite how well they might look.   Favorite example being my scratchbuilt 4-wheel critters (EMC 40 and 25-tonner) that look great and really are a novelty rather than a practical switcher.   The EMC 40 turned into a flatcar load.   The 25-tonner is amazing, but nobody (including me) actually wants to switch with it so it's rather interesting scenery.    This baby though, this one is a real honey, and built to take it.   I'm looking forward to having it operational at Altoona when this COVID stuff clears.    This entire project almost got scrapped when I first put the drivers on and couldn't get rid of a very noticeable wobble myself.  Without Mark Graulty (narrowminded) to fix that with his precision machine work on the axles and wheels to redo it right, this project would have been abandoned as an interesting yet unobtainable concept.   She's dead-steady on her wheels now as you can see on that video, there was probably a 6" vertical bounce before. 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 04:55:41 PM by randgust »

mmagliaro

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #133 on: February 16, 2021, 05:29:43 PM »
+1
Randy,
Thank you.
I think that for anybody building a model to the level you are building the 4-4-0, you deserve  polite, constructive criticism.  Not only is it good manners, but it's the way an excellent model become an excellent "plus" model.

You said, "There's been 1001 things that haven't looked quite right on this project to me, and the camera has found most of them"

This.  The human eye and our brains will perceive that "something's not quite right", or the "whole thing looks sloppy".  But it takes the camera close-ups to see where the errors really are.  I can fix things with an Optivisor on that I cannot fix without it, but that doesn't mean I can't see that "something is wrong" without it.   Tidying up 101 very small precision errors makes the whole model look crisp and clean.  The following analogy may not make sense to everybody, but it's like a band where the bass and drummer aren't quite locked together.  Nothing may sound "off", but the whole band doesn't "groove".


narrowminded

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #134 on: February 22, 2021, 05:37:23 AM »
0
    This entire project almost got scrapped when I first put the drivers on and couldn't get rid of a very noticeable wobble myself.  Without Mark Graulty (narrowminded) to fix that with his precision machine work on the axles and wheels to redo it right, this project would have been abandoned as an interesting yet unobtainable concept.   She's dead-steady on her wheels now as you can see on that video, there was probably a 6" vertical bounce before.

Thanks for the kind words, Randy. 8)  In my lifetime I've been in the spot you were in and so I'm quite sympathetic to the feelings of frustration that arise from those kinds of problems.  Problems that aren't a reflection on the modeler's skills but more on the extent of the tool box.  It's why I've offered that assistance when I thought it might be helpful.  Not everybody can justify the cost, time, and space investment of a whole machine tool just to cut a couple of parts once in a blue moon.

Meanwhile, the project is looking good! 8)  I'm glad I could assist in a small way.
Mark G.