Author Topic: PRR D16sb research for a build  (Read 2156 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
PRR D16sb research for a build
« on: February 01, 2020, 06:22:37 PM »
0
OK, first and foremost, I'm not a good enough PRR guy to take this on without help from the SPF's here.

And, I don't want to get into this thing and find out that if I'd just asked...could have made it a lot easier.

This has a family connection in that the PRR Salamanca Branch (Oil City - Olean) had a local passenger train in 1926-1928 that my father rode as a commuter from Tidioute to Warren PA every day when he was going to business college.  He was enough of a railfan to remember details; first year was a doodlebug, second year that was taken off and it was back to a steam engine.   He just about had to be the only commuter on that train.

So that story is also confirmed by Pietrak's book on the "Western New York and Pennsylvania" that indicates on of the very last runs for the D16sb's was on the Oil City to Olean run, and there are photos in his book of the class at both end points that verify my fathers story.

Personally, I'm old enough that I did get to see 1223 running at Strasburg, and I was really impressed with a couple things - it could really accelerate, and the exhaust was relatively sharp.  For a 4-4-0, a pretty impressive machine.   And, of course, it's stuffed and mounted for study in Strasburg.

I've done a couple Pennsy engines, and I'm really thinking about a deep-dive scratchbuild of one of these.   I've got the clearance diagrams with the basic dimensions for the 68" driver version.   I have a very much scrap Rivarossi 4-6-2 that has 68" drivers and a case of zinc pest on the frame, so I can steal stuff from that.   I can also turn flanges....   And I'm on no timeline here.

Here's one of the class at Olean, NY about 1920:  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr6217.jpg    I've got shots of four more of the class at various locations on the line but that's as good a shot as any.

I'm intrigued by that headlight - electric conversion into the original kerosene box?   I'm pretty sure there's a turbogenerator back by the cab?

But to do this right I really need drawings better that just the clearance diagram if anybody has ever seen any, and help on locating parts in N.   I 'think' the tender, trucks, etc. are on Shapeways, but the cab kind of scares me to get it right.   There are some other PRR classes or models that might share parts here that I don't know about.

I'm probably going to do this as a tender drive like I did my HVRR 2-6-0, that's really turned out to be a champ.

I'm intending to scratch the boiler from brass tubing, have done that before.

Anyway, at this point, opinions and ideas welcome...!     I'd idealized about scratchbuilding my Lima 2-6-0 for years, but getting the builder drawings from the California State Railroad Museum Lima collection moved me off dead center and made it possible and got it done.

The other thing I'd love to come across is a PRR timetable from that period for a train number and schedule, if anybody has an Official Guide for that three-year period.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2020, 06:33:07 PM »
0
Steal the cab from a Minitrx B6sb. It's a dead ringer, if not to use it, then to measure it. That whole loco screams the entire B6 shell. Nice and heavy for weight over the drivers.

I actually have a filled in version of the shell- an all solid casting that you can have for the shipping.

I believe there are D16 drawings, either in the MRR Cyclopedia, or in a book I have. Let me look.

There are also general arrangement diagrams online.

I'll see if I can make an overlay.

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13773
  • Respect: +2893
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2020, 06:41:51 PM »
0
Yes there are D16 drawings in the Steam cylopedia and a D13.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2020, 07:41:25 PM »
0
Is that the Model Railroader cyclopedia 'steam locomotives'?



Lemosteam, that cab tip is the exact kind of thing I was looking for here.

I've got the Pennsy Power book (used, very beat up!) and it has the diagrams in it.  General dimensions but no details, of course.

This is the shot of 1046 in the Pietrak book (page 8-9) - its from the Northeast Railfan Net roster page - but they don't identify the location or date.  Pietrak does, says it was at Oil City, PA  in (get this) 1936 as the 'last regularly scheduled assignment of a D16 on a passenger train'.  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1046s.jpg

I curious if that's a standard tender and if it's out there somewhere on something else though.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 07:50:47 PM by randgust »

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13773
  • Respect: +2893
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2020, 07:59:33 PM »
0
Yes that book. I can scan it if you need.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 08:08:05 PM »
0
Well, if that's a confirm that it's in there, then I'll just get a used copy of that book for my library.

Thanks guys!

For those of you that still think of this as puttering around on the Strasburg and on old weedy branches, you really need to see this - I have this video - and this is one of those 'never to be repeated' runs:


1223 is running second fiddle and reminds me of the olympic track runner with the short legs but still keeping up...

eric220

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Gender: Male
  • Continuing my abomination unto history
  • Respect: +434
    • The Modern PRR
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2020, 12:44:41 AM »
0
For those of you that still think of this as puttering around on the Strasburg and on old weedy branches, you really need to see this - I have this video - and this is one of those 'never to be repeated' runs:


10 PRINT “Fap”
20 GOTO 10

That is some serious hotness right there.

I’ve got a Model Power 4-4-0 that’s lettered up for PRR 1223. I use it with the Roundhouse set of old-timey cars that they decorated for the Strasburg. I figure the locomotive is about the same level of foobie as the cars, so they go together nicely. One day I might get brave enough to try and add belpaire shoulders to the boiler, but that requires paint matching.

Don’t know if you have already seen this one, but check out http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=D16sb-.gif&sel=ste&sz=sm&fr=

I can’t wait to see where this project goes!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 12:52:35 AM by eric220 »
-Eric

Modeling a transcontinental PRR
http://www.pennsylvania-railroad.com

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 07:05:24 AM »
+1
@randgust

So here is an overlay of the D16sb atop the Minitrix cast shell I have.  I should mention that this shell came from THE Ted Brandon, the father of the Minitrix K4, via @mmagliaro .

You can see that the steam features are a bit off once the stack is aligned, and the smokebox diameter on the shell scales to 69.3" so its a little large.

You might also find that a little filing of the B6 cylinder castings might work too!  They have an inward taper.

This diagram will get you started with the brass tubing though and you can see the cab is spot on, so you could just cut the cab off of an old B6. (I did this on my E6 conversion and grafted it onto a cut up K4 shell.



Here is another comaprison using a nice side view of the D16SP from this page, scroll down to see the D16sb portion of the chart: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/prr_steam2.html




@eric220 I have not yet measured an MP 4-4-0, but I have one for a similar conversion and will likely design a CAB/shoulder print to drop on.

eric220

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3475
  • Gender: Male
  • Continuing my abomination unto history
  • Respect: +434
    • The Modern PRR
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 10:15:46 AM »
0
@Lemosteam I’d definitely be in the market for such a print, although it still leaves the paint matching problem.
-Eric

Modeling a transcontinental PRR
http://www.pennsylvania-railroad.com

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13773
  • Respect: +2893
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 03:20:31 PM »
+1
This is what's in the Cylopedia


I can scan better if you like.

Dave V

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 9020
  • Gender: Male
  • The Route of the Galloping Goose
  • Respect: +4271
    • Dave Vollmer's N Scale Pennsy
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 04:54:55 PM »
0
You've got my attention too!
Silver San Juan Scenic Line

Member SlimRail Modular Colorado Narrow Gauge
http://www.slimrail.net/

mmagliaro

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4728
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +954
    • Maxcow Online
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 10:37:05 PM »
0
I second using the B6 cab.  But do note that the windows are different, the side walls are a little high than on the D16, and the rivet pattern isn't the same (if such things bother you).  All of those, however, are fixable things, and starting off with a metal, very-close cab is a great way to start.

drgw0579

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +22
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 11:42:25 PM »
0
D16sb is a fascinating subject for me also.   For me, those huge drivers (compared to 31) made 1223 seem like a big engine.  I also got to see it run as we only lived 10 miles or so from Strasburg.

The story I heard was the Eastern Shore of Maryland was 1223's haunt until the end of steam and it was then moved as part of the historical collection to Northumberland.  The photo is from my father's collection when it was handling the branch line trains down there.

Bill Kepner

drgw0579

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +22
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2020, 11:43:22 PM »
0
Makes for a nice branchline passenger trains

drgw0579

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +22
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 11:47:11 PM »
0
Of course, if you want a headlight...