Two more container questions

[nkalanaga]

Yeah, it's me again, with my early 70s container questions.

First, JTC makes some nice 20 ft containers.  Here's a link to the page:


The question is "When was this style of container (not necessarily Evergreen) first used?". 

Second, I assume there are intermodal fans, just like there are rail, plane, ship, truck, bus, etc.  Does anyone know of a website that has information on when various styles of containers were first used?  If I could look up pictures there, I wouldn't have to keep asking questions!

[jagged ben]

Something very very close to that style dates to 1986 if not a bit earlier.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3318866

The 70s looked like this:  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3319271
Note the logo panels on the XTRA rib sided can, and the extra pair of slots on the bottom for forklifting, which as far as I can tell was typical.  The smooth side can was also more typical for the 70s.

If you want 20 footers appropriate for the 70s I would recommend one of these:
- the XTRA or perhaps CTI versions available here :https://www.ebay.com/itm/20ft-N-Scale-Container-1-150-Shipping-Container-20-Foot-Freight-Car-Model-Train/223201882479
Note that those two roadnames have the logo panels, the others available in that listing don't.  I'm not actually sure the CTI scheme predates 1982, but it's close.
- Another option would be the micro-trains container.
- Another less attractive option is a Model power version from a couple decades ago, a bit more oversize.

....

As far as container references, the best place I know if is Matt's Place  (see here specifically) but it's not as in depth as many railcar sites are.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you!  Looks like I'll save my money.

I have a bunch of the MT containers which, as far as I know, have never been offered decorated for a shipping company.  And the MP boxes are the mainstay of my 20 ft fleet, as I bought a couple dozen, in sets, many years ago.  They fit the MT flats perfectly, so couldn't be too oversized.  The lettering isn't the best, but painted and lettered, they look pretty good.

Those on Ebay are 1:150, so I doubt that they'd fit my flats.  They do look nice, though.  Maybe JTC will come out with some early 20 footers to match their new 40 ft containers.

I'm afraid the Matt's Place link didn't post right, so I'll try Googling them.

[nkalanaga]

For those interested, here's a working link for Matt's Place.
https://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/sea_containers1.htm

[jagged ben]

I forgot to mention that the ones on eBay are mislabeled and are actually 1:160. I can vouch for the CTI and most of their listings have a picture with dimensions you can check. This is the same vendor that Daniel discussed in the RollNd vs. JTC thread.

Thanks for tracking down the correct link for Matt's place.
He also has a basic rundown of some era info:
https://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/modelerseras.html

[nkalanaga]

Ebay sizes:  Thank you.  the vendor could be losing a lot of sales there.

And, I've seen Matt's "eras" page, but didn't realize there was more to the site, or connect the picture pages to the "eras" page.  Thank you!

[Mark5]

The era listings on Matt's place are basic at best. Too many photos are undated so it is very difficult to get good data for 1970s there.

I have a half dozen books on containers and tofc and I am still having difficulty finding some of the schemes that I commonly saw.

Mark

[James Costello]

The July '86 RMC has a good article on container types of the COFC / early double stack era.

"All about Containers" by David Casdorph.

http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine%20Index.aspx?articleId=25916&view=ViewIssue&issueId=1643

I might be able to find my copy of the weekend....

[nkalanaga]

I should have that one - somewhere in my boxes of magazines!  50 years of magazines takes up a lot of space.  And, probably, that one is in the bottom box...  I'll have to look for it.  Thank you!

[nkalanaga]

Here are four of the previously mentioned Model Power containers from years ago.  They probably came in a set of six, as I have six road names.  The other two were SeaLand and Consolidated Freightways.  I doubt that SeaLand's containers were bright white, but the logo is accurate.  As far as I know CF never owned a container, being a trucking company, before containers became a big deal.  At least, I've never seen a CF container, although their trucks were very common in the Northwest.

None of these containers have any end printing, and all of them are cast in the body color, not painted.  The lettering is printed on, as is the light blue of the Kuhne & Nagel container. 

The Evergreen container isn't bad, although, it's debateable whether I can use it.  Wikipedia says they didn't serve the US until 1974, but not WHEN in 1974.  I'll keep it anyway.

The CP Ships apparently is prototypical, but like SeaLand, and probably ACL, shouldn't be bright white.

So far I haven't found a picture of an ACL container with this logo, but won't say it is wrong.

The Kühne + Nagel is a problem.  The company is real, but is a "freight forwarder", and so far I haven't found any evidence that it owns,or ever owned, its own containers.  Has anyone ever seen one, or a picture of one?

[nkalanaga]

And the same containers after painting the white portions silver:


The K+N box was easy, as the entire side is supposed to be blue.  Just mask the side, inside the frame, and spray.  I did the same on the ACL, as I have never seen a container in this scheme, and masking just the lettering would be almost impossible.

The CP Ships container was a little trickier, because I had to mask just the lettering.  It took a couple tries for each mask, even measuring carefully, but didn't turn out bad.  Leaving the data box white was a compromise, but SeaLand had a white background on at least some of their early containers.

The SeaLand was the hardest.  I masked the logo with three pieces of tape, rather than try to cut an odd shape, and used a very small piece for the number block.

I didn't change the Evergreen box, because they paint everything green anyway!

These still aren't "modern quality" models, but the silver does look better. 

[Mark5]

Did Sealand actually have any 20' containers in the 60s/70s? I've seen (and have) many photos of 35' and later 40' containers.

[nkalanaga]

Mark5:  Probably not.  I've never seen a picture of a SeaLand 20ft container in the early schemes.  Of course, finding ANY early container pictures is tough, but I'd think that one would have turned up, as widely as SeaLand containers traveled.

On the other hand, given the shortage of early N scale containers, I'll use anything that looks reasonable.  Maybe somebody will 3-D print a 35 ft SeaLand container.  As they were unique, I doubt that they will be mass-produced anytime soon.

The same goes for Matson's 24 ft boxes, which, at least in the Northwest, were also quite common, and lasted into the 80s, if not later.

I've never seen a Kühne + Nagel container of any type, and doubt that they had any, but again, it fills the flatcar, and I can't say they DIDN'T exist.  I did find a CP Ships container, in that scheme, although the green panel was a little lower on the side.

[jagged ben]

Wheels of Time made the Sealand 35 footers as a resin kit with decals.  I think a lot of people missed out on it though.

[nkalanaga]

I saw their announcements, then never heard anymore about them.  A few years later, I asked what happened, and found they had come, and gone, with little fanfare.  And it seems that, like their container loader, they don't rerun some things.

Folks online, including me, tried for a long time to talk them into making a log loader from their Piggypacker.  The prototype was sold both ways, and it wouldn't have taken much work.  We never got a response.