Author Topic: C&O 0-10-0 switcher  (Read 10733 times)

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mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2020, 11:28:50 AM »
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The 113 is a 1/16" "engraving cutter".  It is completely straight (no taper), so it would make a really good reamer.
Although 1/16" is about .025" bigger than 1.5mm.
John, when you do this, does the worm fit snugly, but loose enough to push on by hand, or is it a loose slip fit that just slides on and off the shaft?

If you're going to buy something anyway, I'd buy a #54 and #55 drill bit, and something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/1-5mm-HSS-Chucking-Reamer-USA/dp/B006Q4XKE2   , a true 1.5mm chucking reamer.


Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2020, 01:43:34 PM »
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Great!

And definitely, don't try to bore out that worm bigger than 1.5mm.    Yes, I think 1.5mm, and then sleeve the two 1.5mm
shafts together as you suggest, is the way to go.

Question... that shaft on your Maxon motor looks AWFULLY short, and looks like it was chopped off.  Did it come that way when you bought it?  How much shaft do you have to work with on the motor?

How are you going to ream out the worm from 1.2mm to 1.5mm?  That's about .012".  I've done it by hand just with a few successively larger bits in a pin vise, using an actual reamer at the very end so you end up with a nice snug fit on the shaft.

The motor shaft looks like that after I took a dremel cutoff disc to it. I remember reading somewhere I think that removing the pinion gear from the shaft is almost impossible. Whatever contact area is there for the loctite will just have to be enough. This is a switcher; it will be working on the flat with a few cars at a time.

I have a metric drill set with 1.40, 1.45, and 1.50 bits. I did order the reamer to try to do this right; I don’t want to mess up the worm.

Thanks again to both of you.
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2020, 02:13:11 PM »
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Oh!   You have a metric 1.45mm bit?  Great!  I have one of those too, but that was a little esoteric, so I wasn't going to bring that up.  Yes, you can bore the work out with that, and then gently ream it until it just fits with finger pressure.

Getting the pinions off Maxon or Faulhaber shafts is tricky because they are usually held on by a tiny spot weld.  But rather than sacrifice all that shaft (the part that is inside the pinion), I sacrifice the pinion itself (unless I really need it for something!)
You can use a Dremel disk, but just hold it against the pinion, while the pinion itself is gripped in some small needlenose pliers.  You should be able to grind away enough of the pinion until you are almost down to the motor shaft, and then it will just break away from the shaft, leaving the shaft intact.

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2020, 02:52:58 PM »
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You can use a Dremel disk, but just hold it against the pinion, while the pinion itself is gripped in some small needlenose pliers.  You should be able to grind away enough of the pinion until you are almost down to the motor shaft, and then it will just break away from the shaft, leaving the shaft intact.

Next time! I have about 1.5mm and can abut against the shoulder of the motor shaft all the way to the end, all of that rotates, not just the 1.5mm part.





« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 02:59:44 PM by Kentuckian »
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

peteski

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2020, 04:07:37 PM »
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Next time! I have about 1.5mm and can abut against the shoulder of the motor shaft all the way to the end, all of that rotates, not just the 1.5mm part.


Correct. Since these motors only have the front and center bearings for the motor shaft (no rear-end bearing), that sleeve on the shaft prevents the motor shaft (and the rotor basket/commutator) from shifting to the rear, and rubbing against the rear of the motor housing.
. . . 42 . . .

Lemosteam

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2020, 08:33:48 PM »
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The 113 is a 1/16" "engraving cutter".  It is completely straight (no taper), so it would make a really good reamer.
Although 1/16" is about .025" bigger than 1.5mm.
John, when you do this, does the worm fit snugly, but loose enough to push on by hand, or is it a loose slip fit that just slides on and off the shaft?

If you're going to buy something anyway, I'd buy a #54 and #55 drill bit, and something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/1-5mm-HSS-Chucking-Reamer-USA/dp/B006Q4XKE2   , a true 1.5mm chucking reamer.

0.025mm = .009" so in reality, that is a typical accurate slip fit. A 1.5mm finished hole in the worm can potentially create a pretty heavy press fit when the tube's tolerance and roundness is taken into account. Let's just say that the slip fit has not been an issue on any of the motors I have done this on. Plus, a light press only provided an opportunity for this klutz to damage a motor. Ask me how I know.

up1950s

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2020, 09:21:25 PM »
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Then there is always the powered tender method , or the motor in the tender trick .


Richie Dost

peteski

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2020, 09:24:06 PM »
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0.025mm = .009" so in reality, that is a typical accurate slip fit. A 1.5mm finished hole in the worm can potentially create a pretty heavy press fit when the tube's tolerance and roundness is taken into account. Let's just say that the slip fit has not been an issue on any of the motors I have done this on. Plus, a light press only provided an opportunity for this klutz to damage a motor. Ask me how I know.

I don't know John, 0.009" to me is a pretty sloppy fit. Way too loose.  The capillary tubing Max found has pretty tight tolerances. I suspect that its tolerance are less than +- 0.001"

Um, checking your math again 0.25mm is 0.00098" (not 0.009"), which would be plenty tight for a good slip fit.

But, the whole math seems to be messed up (even Max's).
Using online converter:
1/16" = 0.0625" or 1.65608mm, which is 0.15608mm larger than 1.5mm.
0.15608mm = 0.0062" which to me is still too sloppy of a fit.
. . . 42 . . .

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2020, 01:43:37 AM »
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My math was messed up.

I said
 1/16" is about .025" bigger than 1.5mm. "

1/16 = .0625"
1.5mm = .059"
.0625 -.059 = .0035"  (I actually meant .0025 when I wrote the original post, but that would also have been wrong!)

So the 1/16" is .0035" too big.  That's a little big, I think.

Peteski, I think there is still something wrong in the numbers you posted.

You wrote:
"1/16" = 0.0625" or 1.65608mm, which is 0.15608mm larger than 1.5mm.
0.15608mm = 0.0062" which to me is still too sloppy of a fit."

1/16 = .0625 = 1.5875mm not 1.65608
1.5875 - 1.5 = .0875mm = .003444"   (or about .0035")




peteski

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2020, 03:00:52 AM »
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My math was messed up.

I said
 1/16" is about .025" bigger than 1.5mm. "

1/16 = .0625"
1.5mm = .059"
.0625 -.059 = .0035"  (I actually meant .0025 when I wrote the original post, but that would also have been wrong!)

So the 1/16" is .0035" too big.  That's a little big, I think.

Peteski, I think there is still something wrong in the numbers you posted.

You wrote:
"1/16" = 0.0625" or 1.65608mm, which is 0.15608mm larger than 1.5mm.
0.15608mm = 0.0062" which to me is still too sloppy of a fit."

1/16 = .0625 = 1.5875mm not 1.65608
1.5875 - 1.5 = .0875mm = .003444"   (or about .0035")

Yes, I don't know how I came up with 1.65608.  You are correct. I also agree that it is still a bit of a loose fit.
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mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2020, 12:53:58 PM »
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Just to belabor this a bit more...
To be honest, I have used 1/16" bits to bore gears for a 1.5mm shaft.  It does work.  But since 1.5mm and 1.45mm drill bits are readily available and inexpensive, I haven't use a 1/16" in a long time because I just think it's better and safer to get closer to the correct bore and get rid of the slop.

I'd try the 1.45mm first, and if you can't push the gear on by hand, ream it or use the 1.5mm bit.

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2020, 09:09:56 PM »
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So in working on my tenders for steam projects I am slowly building up my courage to install the motor and drive shaft. But first, some aesthetic issues need to be dealt with.

The wheel base of the model is five feet longer than the prototype. It is in the wheel diameter, the prototype drivers are 52” and the model’s are scale 64”. So five drivers times one foot extra in diameter equals the five foot longer wheelbase. So this is more of a “representation” of the prototype. I am good with this.

The long Bachmann tender is almost spot on for the tender. It does need a “clearview” coal bunker. The water tank on tender switchers are lower so the crew can see over it, and the coal bunker is narrower so the crew can see around it, since a switcher will be going backwards about as often as forwards. I am grafting the coal bunker from an old Atlas 0-8-0 switcher onto the long tender.

Because of the extra length, what to use for a boiler is an issue. I first thought to use the Atlas 0-8-0 shell, but it is not long enough. The extra length needs to be proportionally distributed between the two sand domes and the steam dome. I thought about scratchbuilding a boiler from styrene as was shown in an article in Model Railroad Hobbyist a few years ago. But I hope to start layout construction soon and I don’t want to retire on this job.

So right now the front runner is a Bachmann mallet shell cut down right behind the rear sand dome:



The diameter is within four inches, and the domes are close. So, we will see.
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2020, 08:35:59 PM »
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Getting close to installing the motor. @mmagliaro that reamer is da bomb. Now the question: Is the worm in the same place as before relative to the worm gear? Right now I am not concerned about mesh, just the length of the splice tube. If it is not in the same place does it matter?

Before:



With new motor. The tube is not thread locked yet; I can still shorten it if need be.




Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2020, 10:17:03 PM »
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From the photos, it looks like it will work, but it really should be moved back a little bit toward the motor.  Ideally, you want
the center of the worm right over the center of the worm gear.  If the worm is long and there are plenty of teeth on it so that both ends overhang the worm gear by a little,  it really doesn't matter.  But this worm is pretty short.  I'd just want to be sure that the last turn of the screw doesn't  "miss" pushing a tooth on the worm gear that it would push if it were back a little more.

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2020, 10:44:22 AM »
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Thanks, @mmagliaro , that’s the information I am looking for. Back to the disc grinder.
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun