Author Topic: C&O 0-10-0 switcher  (Read 1800 times)

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Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2019, 11:15:34 AM »
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I visited my Island of Misfit Motors and found this. I think I have space for it and it is already on hand. Thoughts?



Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

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randgust

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2019, 11:19:10 AM »
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Yeah, that's Max's famous custom build that got released as a limited-run product.   I got one of those.

Gizmoszone is GONE, gone, even their web address is expired now.     

I was going to use mine as a tender-drive for my Lima 2-6-0 and it didn't work as well as a smaller motor with a gearhead on it that fit in the tender better.    But basically, it was a pretty good combination.

But the output shaft on all these gearheads isn't really set up to take much of a vertical load that's youd get from directly mounting a worm on it.  There's no really good end bearing on that gearhead and some have quite a bit of slop.   If you can mount the worm and connect it via a universal of some kind to take the load off the end bearing of the gearhead you want to do that.  With tender drives that's not an issue, with a boiler drive it might be. 

The other approach is to use the worm as a splice and put an extender shaft out the other side of the worm, and get that shaft in a support bearing.  That also takes most of the vertical load off the gearhead end.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 11:26:21 AM by randgust »

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2019, 11:49:59 AM »
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I don’t have room for any type of coupling or bearing block between the gearbox shaft and the worm. A bearing block on the boiler end is a good idea in theory, but you start to get into the wheel pickups and building such a thing is above my skill level.

I have another motor on order; you can’t make bricks without clay. We’ll see. Thanks for the information.
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2019, 01:27:41 PM »
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Actually, the MOTOR that's on that Gizmoszone product would work well all by itself.
(Gizmoszone made a version of that plastic gearhead with a brass output shaft instead of plastic.  Whey they didn't use THAT one when they mated it to the Mashima motor is beyond me... just being cheap, I guess).

Yes, I was the "instigator" behind that motor/gearhead combo because I was experimenting with all sorts of motors that would fit that gearhead (besides the really cheap motor that Gizmoszone was selling pre-packaged with it), and the Mashima worked the best.  Those folks picked up my posts from the old Atlas forum, saw my idea, and produced a ready-made version with the Mashima on it.  I wouldn't say I had any more to do with it than that.

Anyway, that Mashima will have a 1.5mm shaft that will take the proper worm just fine.  When you remove the gearhead, you will find a flatted side on the shaft, but it should still have enough shaft left to mount the worm.

Lemosteam's suggestion of the old LifeLike motors is also a good one.  Those are powerful, slow-running motors that will fit and take the worm.

The coreless "super motors" like the Maxon are fantastic, but they will take some work to get them mounted and get the worm on there.

Somebody asked how those motors mount. 
The short answer is "ingenuity".  They have a screw-threaded "nose" around the output shaft, so if you can fashion an L-shaped metal bracket, screwed to the frame, with the other leg of the L sticking up vertically, you can put the motor right into that hole and secure it with a flat nut (like the nuts that hold toggle switches into control panels.  But here is the rub.  It is a really whack-job thread that nobody has.  It is M5.5 x 0.5 thread.  Good luck finding that at your local hardware store... or even Fastenal, Grainger, or any other big industrial supplier.  I managed to use one of those flat samped kind of nuts once, by forcing around the threads and make both the nut and the motor thread "yield" a little.  Here's an example in a Key Imports PRR M1... this Maxon motor, luckily, had a nice long output shaft on it, so putting the rubber tube on was easy.  Most of them are not that long, so you really want to hang on to these versions of the motors when you find them.  In this case, I was able to screw the threaded motor nose right into the softer metal of the "L" bracket, and secure it with some Loctite or epoxy so it wouldn't unscrew.



So the other options are the usual make-shift stand-bys... silicone goo or 2-part epoxy.     Here's a Maxon 13 x 20 mounted in a Trix K4.  The fit is snug to begin with, against that back frame plate.  So some epoxy is all I need to make it stay put.  And once again, this was a Maxon with a nice long output shaft, which was 1.5mm, so a new worm fitted on easily.  Most coreless Maxons or Faulhabers are NOT like this.  So you need to sleeve the output shafts.


« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 01:44:21 PM by mmagliaro »

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2019, 01:56:38 PM »
+1
SLEEVING:

Look on Amazon (or anywhere) for CynKen stainless capillary tube.
Among many other sizes, you will find it in:

OD 1.5mm  ID 1.0mm
OD 1.5mm  ID 0.9mm
OD 1.5mm  ID 0.8mm

Those 3 sizes will cover all your Faulhaber and Maxon motor shaft sleeving needs!   Stainless tubing is MUCH stronger than brass.
So you can press it on a short shaft with some LocTite and it should hold well and support a worm.
Cut off about 1" of the stuff with a Dremel cut-off disk, put it on the motor shaft with some Loctite.... HOLDING THE MOTOR WITH THE SHAFT POINTING DOWN SO THE LOCTITE DOESN'T FIND ITS WAY INTO THE MOTOR BEARING!!!

Once the Loctite sets, you can buzz off the excess tubing with the Dremel.

Here's an example in a Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4.   This is a 2mm Faulhaber gearhead output shaft, but the idea is the same.



brokemoto

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2019, 02:02:45 PM »
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What’s a “USRA light decapod” ? You mean a Russian decapod? But those were much smaller, shorter, lighter, with much smaller wheels and wheelbase.

It is a name for it that will serve for lack of a better one.  If you put a USRA light shell onto the chassis and put a USRA standard tender behind it, what else could you call it?

The RR shell just happens to fit onto the TRIX chassis.  The steam pipes and cylinders even happen to align.

In reality, there was no such thing as a USRA light decapod.

Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2019, 04:39:48 PM »
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Max, thank you so much, you anticipated my next question. I have a maxon on order. But, this is tempting:



Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

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mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2019, 06:44:17 PM »
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Max, thank you so much, you anticipated my next question. I have a maxon on order. But, this is tempting:




That's a 12mm x 20mm Sagami, right?   Sure, that will work and will definitely be a big step up in performance over the awful motor that was originally in those engines.   The 12mm Sagamis were pretty good - the 10mm... not so much.    I used that exact Sagami in my first Trix K4 remotor job back in 1991 (ouch...).  I will say, however, if you can get a MASHIMA 12x20, it will be a lot better.
And it will still have the nice 1.5mm shaft.   (The Mashima you have with that Gizmoszone gearhead on it is only a 10x15... those are excellent motors, but a big step down in power from the 12x20... after all they are pretty darn tiny)

This fellow, in Poland, still has some Mashimas left:    [it has been pointed out to me that he is in Czech Republic,
not Poland... sorry for the confusion.  Now that I think of it, I don't know why I always thought he was in Poland, when his
contact information is clearly in Czech Republic]
http://www.pojezdy.eu/eshop/6-mashima-motors

I have ordered from him.  No problems.  Just takes a couple of weeks for it to get here.  That currency, Kc, is "Czech Koruna".  So he wants about $20 for that motor right now, if you check the exchange rate.  As I recall, when I ordered some motors, gears, and other bits from him, the shipping wasn't bad at all... I think around 10 bucks.


« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:53:49 PM by mmagliaro »

nkalanaga

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2019, 02:12:09 AM »
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"If they ever ship their backlog of orders. I have had one since march that is still pending."

Interesting.  I ordered a batch of wheels and insulators from them, for my Arnold/Rapido FA's, a month or so before they "closed".  They arrived in about a week.  Maybe it's just certain items they're having problems with.
N Kalanaga
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draskouasshat

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2019, 01:28:38 PM »
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Honestly, you could have started with a Bachmann 2-10-2, micro ace or larger European models that already have smaller flanges but they do cost more.

Drasko
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mike_lawyer

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2019, 10:45:32 PM »
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SLEEVING:

Look on Amazon (or anywhere) for CynKen stainless capillary tube.
Among many other sizes, you will find it in:

OD 1.5mm  ID 1.0mm
OD 1.5mm  ID 0.9mm
OD 1.5mm  ID 0.8mm

Those 3 sizes will cover all your Faulhaber and Maxon motor shaft sleeving needs!   Stainless tubing is MUCH stronger than brass.
So you can press it on a short shaft with some LocTite and it should hold well and support a worm.
Cut off about 1" of the stuff with a Dremel cut-off disk, put it on the motor shaft with some Loctite.... HOLDING THE MOTOR WITH THE SHAFT POINTING DOWN SO THE LOCTITE DOESN'T FIND ITS WAY INTO THE MOTOR BEARING!!!

Once the Loctite sets, you can buzz off the excess tubing with the Dremel.

Here's an example in a Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4.   This is a 2mm Faulhaber gearhead output shaft, but the idea is the same.


Max -

Thank you so much for the link to the sleeving.  I have been looking for that material for a while but have never found it. Now I can sleeve to 1.5 mm fairly easily!

mmagliaro

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2019, 12:05:39 AM »
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Well, I appreciate the thanks, but also... this is the first time I'm going to be seeing that particular brand myself.  So let's hope that it has good, close tolerances, so it fits tight on the motor shaft, and fits the worm hole correctly!

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2019, 12:10:01 AM »
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. . . and fits the worm hole correctly!

Hmm . . . that sounds like something out of Star Trek.  :D
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Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2019, 08:22:32 AM »
+1
Honestly, you could have started with a Bachmann 2-10-2, micro ace or larger European models that already have smaller flanges but they do cost more.

Drasko

There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat. I choose the Minitrix for the following reasons:

1. Cost, as you mentioned. This locomotive was not a “have to have,” but a “it would be cool to have.” It was always in the back of my mind. So when I saw this engine for $25.00, I thought I could spend that much to start hacking. Certainly I feel more confident than if I had spent north of $100.00.

2. I don’t have a Bachmann 2-10-2 to compare to the Minitrix, but the firebox looks longer on the Bachmann. This may not actually be true, but looking at the photo on Spookshow’s website it looks that way. So I think the Minitrix is closer to my prototype.

3. The recent retro vibe on TRW may have influenced me some to use an older engine. But the above two reasons are much more important.

The project is currently dormant waiting on parts.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 08:58:25 AM by Kentuckian »
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

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Kentuckian

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Re: C&O 0-10-0 switcher
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2019, 08:57:36 AM »
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So a Maxon motor showed up in the mail. I had no problem separating the gear case from the motor; I just used a pair of pliers on both halves and gave a twist.

(or a Dremel with a cut-off disk slicing off the gear if you are a "ruffian"  Ha ha

I did have to use a dremel to remove the pinion gear after I broke the pin on my gear puller. I don’t know about ruffian, I consider this more of a redneck way.

@jargonlet sent me a stock motor, so now everything rolls on code 55. Thanks again!

I will have to remove the front lip of the motor for it to fit.



Still waiting on tubing for driveline.
Modeling the C&O in Kentucky.

“Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. ... Everything science has taught me-and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” Wernher von Braun