Broadway Limited AC6000

[kiwi_bnsf]

I received my UP AC6000CW yesterday, and I have to say that I'm very happy with the purchase.

It comes very well packaged, and has a detailed instruction booklet with documented CVs and an exploded parts diagram. This might not seem important, but I really wish all manufacturers did this.

To me the decoration quality is better than Kato, with a nicer (less orange) UP yellow. The numberboards are excellent, and there is a wealth of printed warning labels and fine lettering. The only decoration that lets it down are the black window gaskets, which look too thick to me.

My other complaint is that the shell relief is a bit oversized — all the rivets and tread detail are all slightly too raised, but it only shows in closeup photos. As soon as you are more than 10cm away, it looks quite acceptable, and the shell is way better than my Overland Brass AC6000CW. The handrails are not perfect, but they are also not as bad as Bachmann Dash 8s, and are not as fragile as Intermountain Tunnel Motors. The cab sunshades and rear view mirrors are excellent.

The chassis and trucks are almost Kato quality — very fine wheels, excellent trucks, and very smooth operation straight out of the box. I have not had any stalls whatsoever. It is better than my Athearn or Intermountain locos operationally, and I would say it even gives FVM a run for their money. It leaves the ScaleTrains Turbines in the dust in terms of chassis design. This is very important to me, as I want to run my locos, not stare at them.

The decoder is well setup from stock. The prime mover is too loud, but not as loud as the factory Loksounds from Kato, or the Tsuamis from Athearn, and volume is easily fixed. The horn is simply the best I have heard in N scale — it is really fun to operate, and it has some combination of reverb and echo that sounds excellent whether played short or long. There is both manual and automatic notching available for the prime mover, and the automatic mode is very good out of the box. Top speed is nice and low (i.e. it won’t consist with anything Kato without loading a slow speed table for the Kato).

The ditchlights are perfect — they can be switched on and off separately, and they alternate with the horn. They have done a good job of Rule 17 dimming for forward and reverse. The cab light seems very gimmicky to me, and is distracting when it comes on every time you stop and it highlights the issue of the window gaskets. I will disable it with the CV.

Summary:

Decoration:   8/10
Shell detail:   6.5/10
Chassis:      8.5/10
Decoder:      9/10


Overall I would give it 8.5/10, and I’m very happy. For USD175.00, this level of sound and decoder features is excellent, the chassis is great, and the shell is okay.

I would consider myself a very nit picky modeller. DOA models aside, I think this is a hit.

Cheers

Tim

[ChrisKLAS]

I received my two today, and was pleasantly surprised given the many posts on here reporting problems. They both ran much better than I was expecting right out of the box. No need to speed match as they were perfectly in line already. Both units did hesitate through one or two turnouts, but after going at the wheels for about 10 minutes on each engine with paper towels and alcohol, all of the ridiculous wheel blackening crap is gone, the wheels are sparkly shiny, and they run beautifully with no electrical hiccups whatsoever.

BTW, the toyish cab light can actually be assigned to a DCC function or disabled altogether by setting CV208 to 0 (which is what I did). Instructions to make both changes are in the printed manual that comes with the engine.

So, an hour ago while just sitting idling away, one of the units referenced above started making LOUD DCC shorting noises and emitting smoke. Tripped the DCC breaker almost immediately, and it wouldn't reset until the engine was removed from the rails. Now my question becomes do I return only the bad one or both of them, since I have no confidence that the same thing won't happen to the "good" unit later on down the road. Very disappointing, and given the reports everywhere of problems with these engines,  not a good step along the way for BLI into the N scale market.

[Chris333]

Funny BL's whole thing is DCC and sound and that is what the problems are 

[peteski]

Chris, your experience added to the growing list of failure reports (and just on this forum) seems to indicate, like I mentioned earlier, that BLI seems to have a problem with quality control on this model.  This is seems to be going beyond the regular level of griping seen here about newly-released models.

I'm really curios as to what is failing in such a destructive manner. It seems that the failing models literally go up in smoke.  But is it caused by careless assembly/wiring, defective batch of a component on the decoder, or bad decoder design?

[mu26aeh]

How many have gone up in smoke on DC and in DCC ?  Many issues I read about were on DC layouts.  Only a couple on DCC.

[ChrisKLAS]

Chris, your experience added to the growing list of failure reports (and just on this forum) seems to indicate, like I mentioned earlier, that BLI seems to have a problem with quality control on this model.  This is seems to be going beyond the regular level of griping seen here about newly-released models.

There's no doubt! It's not just here, either. The N scale groups on Facebook are littered with posts and comments from folks whose units were DOA or failed spectacularly after the fact. Obviously something is terribly wrong with most, if not all, of the entire run. Really sad, too, because they're great little engines when they're right.

Here's a short little video I made before one of 'em bit the dust: https://www.facebook.com/NScaleTehachapiPass/videos/1447346368713842

[peteski]

How many have gone up in smoke on DC and in DCC ?  Many issues I read about were on DC layouts.  Only a couple on DCC.

The current travels through the same components of the decoder, regardless of whether it is DC or DCC.   I expect that if the model fails, it will fail in either operating ode.

[C855B]

Funny BL's whole thing is DCC and sound and that is what the problems are 

[ljudice]

Glad I missed out on this fiasco.  I hope everyone ends up being made whole at the end of the day as these were not cheap.

[Philip H]

@spookshow had a facebook post yesterday that BLI is no longer sending out replacements because the cost has gotten too high. If yours dies they will refund you if you send it back. Like @peteski said it appears to be a systemic failure in decoder components.

[spookshow]

@spookshow had a facebook post yesterday that BLI is no longer sending out replacements because the cost has gotten too high. If yours dies they will refund you if you send it back. Like @peteski said it appears to be a systemic failure in decoder components.

Minor correction - it's BLW (Brooklyn Locomotive Works) that is no longer sending out replacement AC6000's - not BLI. I don't know what BLI is doing.

-Mark

[Scottl]

Does anyone have a comparison shot of the BLI with a Kato or FVM GEVO?  I find the shell detailing with the BLI seems exaggerated, but it is hard to know without a reference.  There is definitely a quality to them that does not sit right with me (meltdown problems and other obvious defects aside).

[EspeeGoldenState]

There's no doubt! It's not just here, either. The N scale groups on Facebook are littered with posts and comments from folks whose units were DOA or failed spectacularly after the fact. Obviously something is terribly wrong with most, if not all, of the entire run. Really sad, too, because they're great little engines when they're right.

Here's a short little video I made before one of 'em bit the dust: https://www.facebook.com/NScaleTehachapiPass/videos/1447346368713842

Man, you're video almost had me go and find a UP one. (Also want a SP version, but not how they did it with the pilot ditch lights, so its gotta be custom). I guess if the bad ones pop for sale, I'd buy one for the price is right and put my own decoder/sound in it.

Hopefully there is a second run with the bugs worked out. I'll have to renumber any UP that I get regardless.

Chris

[mu26aeh]

I'm surprised there has not been an official response from anyone with the number of complaints received.  I'm going to try to stop by my LHS this weekend to discuss last weeks open house and also check to see if he's had any returns.  Mentioned about me grabbing one but I didn't have the funds.  Looks like I wouldn't have needed them anyway ....

[wcfn100]

I'm surprised there has not been an official response from anyone with the number of complaints received.

You've never talked to these guys face to face.   

Jason