N Scale Sound and future purchasing decisions

[jdcolombo]

I agree with this completely!  It sounds to me (ha!) like sound fans do not care much for the pre-installed sound decoders and speakers anyway, so why not just offer a "sound-ready" version to make us all happy?

My cynical mind tells me it is because the manufacturers can jack up the price very disproportionately with the cost of adding the sound, that's why.  They upcharge $50 or more for locos with sound built in, for something that costs them a fraction of that to put in.   It's like the soft drinks in restaurants.  They may sell you a steak dinner for $30 that costs them $15 to make, but they sell you a soda for $3 that cost them pennies.  There's a big profit margin in pre-installed sound.

Hi Max.

Yeah, so far I haven't met a factory sound install that I really liked.  I ended up replacing the speakers in the Atlas S-2 and IM SD40-2 for a much-needed improvement.   I've torn out the factory sound board and speaker in every single Bachmann steam loco I have that came with, so that was nothing but wasted money from my end.  And I also got rid of the BLI Paragon 2 decoders and modified the speakers in their PA-1's that I have.  I figure I've spent about $500 on stuff that has long since made it to the landfill.  And that's ANOTHER reason "Sound Ready" sounds good to me! (Pun intended).

John

[basementcalling]

Sound ready would make me happy too.

Peteski, so music demands it be played loud!

One common sound modification I have heard over and over is that most people turn down the sound on the engines because it quickly becomes annoying. That I can believe. So why pay for something that you are going to turn off or way down because it becomes unlikeable?

I've gotten used to the Kato whine of a good N scale engine!

[Kentuckian]

John, thanks for holding my hand on the step by step installation! Now to start amassing parts . . . .

[Mark5]

Personally, I prefer to roll my own when it comes to DCC & sound - even though I am still in DCC!

What drives me primarily is the accuracy of the model.

That said, this year I will will probably take the plunge, buy a DCC system and get the IM SD40-2 with sound in N&W to repaint into N&W as delivered (the shell seems to have none of the glaring errors of the Kato units, plus it comes with a high nose!). I still will have to modify the trucks as they are incorrect for N&W. I will likely modify the sound ala Mr. JDColombo. 

Mark

[BCR751]

I'd rather see sound go the route Lance Mindheim discussed on his blog with the sound come from the throttle via headphones.

I would like to learn more about this option.  It would seem that you could have more realistic sounds if they were piped through a good set of stereo headphones.  Please post a link to Lance's blog.

Doug

[basementcalling]

I would like to learn more about this option.  It would seem that you could have more realistic sounds if they were piped through a good set of stereo headphones.  Please post a link to Lance's blog.

Doug

Doug, here's the link to his sound hierarchy blog entry.  http://lancemindheim.com/2013/06/sound/

Look around while there. Lance has a very defined approach to modeling and layout building, but the site has a wealth of ideas useful for any layout.

[BCR751]

Doug, here's the link to his sound hierarchy blog entry.  http://lancemindheim.com/2013/06/sound/

Look around while there. Lance has a very defined approach to modeling and layout building, but the site has a wealth of ideas useful for any layout.

The latest post in his blog is from 2015.  Have there been any further developments in using headphone sound since then?

Doug

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yes!
There is actually a function in JMRI called "Virtual Sound Decoders".

I started playing with VSDs a while back, and had some success. It's not a perfect solution, but it can be made to work.

I ran into some bugs, then decided to work on other stuff, but I have some videos of me playing with it. The sound in them is coming from a stereo under the layout.

Here's an instructional video by Mark Underwood, who I believe is the original genius behind them.

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And my videos.

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[gkoproske]

Yeah, so far I haven't met a factory sound install that I really liked.  I ended up replacing the speakers in the Atlas S-2 and IM SD40-2 for a much-needed improvement.   I've torn out the factory sound board and speaker in every single Bachmann steam loco I have that came with, so that was nothing but wasted money from my end.  And I also got rid of the BLI Paragon 2 decoders and modified the speakers in their PA-1's that I have.  I figure I've spent about $500 on stuff that has long since made it to the landfill.  And that's ANOTHER reason "Sound Ready" sounds good to me! (Pun intended).

We should consider ourselves lucky that we can buy a locomotive off the shelf that gives us a dual mode sound decoder, already installed, ready to go. I am extremely happy NOT to tear into them and fool with unsoldering and soldering and buying parts and grinding and whatnot. It is real easy to just leave it all alone and go run your trains and attain a moderate degree of satisfaction.  I have enough other projects stacked up without creating new problems.

[Mark5]

Yes!
There is actually a function in JMRI called "Virtual Sound Decoders".

I started playing with VSDs a while back, and had some success. It's not a perfect solution, but it can be made to work.

I ran into some bugs, then decided to work on other stuff, but I have some videos of me playing with it. The sound in them is coming from a stereo under the layout.

I don't know who came up with these ideas, but running the sound through speakers (not in the loco) is a very old idea. I personally would prefer that the sound be "piped" this way, at least for the size of my layout.

But I have not even moved towards DCC, as the layout hasn't really started - in this case waiting for technology to move sometimes pays off.

[Lemosteam]

Yes!
There is actually a function in JMRI called "Virtual Sound Decoders".

I started playing with VSDs a while back, and had some success. It's not a perfect solution, but it can be made to work.

I ran into some bugs, then decided to work on other stuff, but I have some videos of me playing with it. The sound in them is coming from a stereo under the layout.

Here's an instructional video by Mark Underwood, who I believe is the original genius behind them.

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And my videos.

/>

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If it can be pumped through speakers, it can be routed to headphones.  Dispatch could even be piped over the sound in the headphones and with a combo microphone Bluetooth gaming headset, the operator could communicate back.

On the other hand this sounds very impersonal in a group operating session.

[peteski]

If it can be pumped through speakers, it can be routed to headphones.  Dispatch could even be piped over the sound in the headphones and with a combo microphone Bluetooth gaming headset, the operator could communicate back.

On the other hand this sounds very impersonal in a group operating session.

While I'm not a fan of this type of sound system, how is that different from a group of teens walking down the street and instead of enjoying a lively conversation with each other, they all are looking down at their schmart phones, texting someone or playing some video game.  That is just as impersonal. We live in a society where isolation from our surroundings seems to be the norm.

[Lemosteam]

While I'm not a fan of this type of sound system, how is that different from a group of teens walking down the street and instead of enjoying a lively conversation with each other, they all are looking down at their schmart phones, texting someone or playing some video game.  That is just as impersonal. We live in a society where isolation from our surroundings seems to be the norm.

Yes, that is my counterpoint to headsets.

[Maletrain]

I am not seeing the "impersonal" aspect of having loco sounds piped into head phones. 

When wearing head phones for op sessions, I am still talking to people around me.  I use the head phones (and micrpphone) to talk to the dispatcher, and only when needed. 

One of the difficulties in talking to those around me is the large number of sound locos "doing their thing" close by.  In the real world, I would not be able to hear every loco operating or standing-by anywhere in the same division -  I would just hear my own loco, and maybe ones that pass close.

So, to me, having the sounds for MY loco ONLY pumped into the same headset I am already wearing seems both more realistic AND an IMPROVEMENT in the operating environment.  It also takes the speakers out of the tenders and other cramped spaces inside the models, themselves.  Which makes it easier to make realistic levels of sound in all frequencies.

The onlydown side is that it does not work for the VISITOR who is sitting back watching somebody else run the railroad.  But, I don't see any reason why the same sounds could not be sent via Bluetooth to a receiver with speakers under the layout for visitors to hear WHEN that is desired.

[craigolio1]

Someone should make a sound file for what these locos sound like while you're riding in the cab.

Craig