Kato Trainfest announcement! YAS!

[sd45elect2000]

The Olympian didn't seem to be a coach heavy train, it would certainly have more sleepers than coaches.

 If I could choose an add on set from the cars they are making, I would pick one coach, two touraluxe and one "Lake " sleeper for a four car add on. The Milwaukee had 10 of the "Lake" 10-6 cars and 15 of the Touraluxe carsso there were some spares. Granted in later years the Touralux cars were also used on the Columbian so the fleet was spread out a bit.

Randy

 

[wcfn100]

The Olympian didn't seem to be a coach heavy train, it would certainly have more sleepers than coaches.

As I said, I'm no expert, but the following were said to have been taken from the LaCrosse dispatcher's sheet January 1956.



And from what I've seen, the general train consist was Headend Cars - Coaches - Dome - Diner - Sleepers - Observation.  Using that as a guide, which of course isn't scientific or even factual probably but it's where I'm at right now, none of the trains I can find had more sleepers than coaches. 


Jason

[sd45elect2000]

I had a nice reply typed up but I got booted off Railwire as soon as I hit post. Keep in mind I have a short temper and I am not going to retype my original post.

I count the Skytop cars as sleepers so the examples you gave show an equal amount of coaches to sleepers. BY the time of your example consist the Columbian was already discontinued. Also some of the cars were yellow by then.

In John F Strauss's book "Milwaukee road passenger trains" and Patrick Dorins book on Milwaukee road passenger trains there are many photo's and sample consists that show that indeed either an equal proportion of coaches / sleepers but more often there was at least one more sleeper than coaches.

After the discontinuation of the Columbian the Olympian became more of a workhorse and the amount of head end equipment increased.

Also, there were train consolidations in Minneapolis-St Paul that are represented by your examples.

Randy

[wcfn100]

In John F Strauss's book "Milwaukee road passenger trains" and Patrick Dorins book on Milwaukee road passenger trains there are many photo's and sample consists that show that indeed either an equal proportion of coaches / sleepers but more often there was at least one more sleeper than coaches.

Could you post one of these consist from the 52-55' era (if there is one) that shows a longer trains like 13-14 cars?  I'm really curious about the possible cars ahead of the dome especially since with what you're saying, they can't all be coaches.


Jason

[sd45elect2000]

Eastbound Superdome Olympian Hiawatha Jan 5th 1953

9AB Harlowtown to Minneapolis
1131 express dorm
552 coach
515 coach
533 coach
51 Superdome
5741 Mt Washington Touralux sleeper
5744 Mt. Raynier   sleeper
119 diner
10 Lake Kapowsin sleeper
17 Marble Creek sleeper

June 21 1953
Little Joe electric Harlowtown to Avery
1315 express dorm
551 coach
538 coach
542 coach
56 Superdome
120 diner
5754 Mt Tacoma touralux sleeper
5745 M.t Rushmore touralux sleeper
11 Lake Crescent 10-6 sleeper
12 Alder creek sleeper

The Superdome seems to always be between the cheap coach seats and the expensive sleepers so I cannot see the dome car being moved rearward until the Olympian Hiawatha started doing the work of the Columbian.

If Kato wishes to do either an earlier train or a later train they will need to make additional car types.


Randy

[wcfn100]

Thanks Randy.  So to be clear I haven't been counting the observation as a sleeper in my car counts comparing them to the number or coaches.

Based on what you posted, maybe a two-pack with one coach and one touralux sleeper would be a nice addition based on current tooling.

Jason

[Point353]

In watching video and looking at pictures of the Olympian Hiawatha the train seems to vary from 10-14 cars without baggage cars but a single head end car.

For instance, in the following video, if you jump to 23:11 there's a 13 car consist.  Are the extra cars just coaches?

Or here to jump to the the time - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQupCrYLLbk&t=23m11s

If you go back in the video to about 22:50, there is what appears to be an 11 car train.

First car is the baggage/express-dorm, followed by what seem to be three coaches.
Then the superdome and the diner.
After that are four more cars and, finally, the skytop sleeper/observation.

Can anyone determine whether or not the four cars between the diner and the obs are all sleepers and, if so, which types they are?
Slowing down the playback speed of the video might help with the identification.

[sd45elect2000]

Everything behind the Superdome and diner are sleepers. They should be either the "Lake" or the "Mount" touralux cars. It is possible to sub a "River" car if you desire although they were not a fixture to the train.

Randy

[Ngineer]

Where any of those Olympian Hiawatha cars used by early Amtrak trains? During their rainbow phase? If so, it would make the Kato release VERY tempting for me.

   Javier

[sd45elect2000]

Well... the sleepers were not. I'm not sure about the coaches. Perhaps some were used but they were in the yellow scheme and not the 1952 orange scheme that Kato is doing.

 The Chicago Minneapolis service did use Milwaukee coaches for a time but I'm uncertain if they were Olympian cars.

 There was an odd relationship between Amtrak and the Milwaukee road cars. There was an instruction that inspectors used not to bad order Milwaukee cars because of a sagging carbody.

 I think by the time of Amtrak there were only the 1948 cars left although the 1942 cars were long lived.

Other Milwaukee cars did run on Amtrak like the "river" sleepers like Minnesota River and Zumbro River. I'm not sure about the other 4 Pioneer 16-4 cars.

The Milwaukee did buy some "Pacific" cars from the UP and I believe they made it into the Amtrak system although I think Amtrak stripped the yellow paint off the stainless steel Budd cars.

[nickelplate759]

Amtrak did use the Superdomes for a while.

George

[milw156]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Milwaukee to St Louis Abraham Lincoln had Milwaukee equipment from time to time, tho I recall it was mostly GM&O in the early days.
Rick

[sd45elect2000]

I remember that too. The Milwaukee contributed what I think is one of the more interesting cars to that train. The "Grove" parlor diners were assigned to it for a time.

But.. without trying to be a dink since the original question was if any of the Olympian Hiawatha cars ran on Amtrak;  neither the superdomes or the cars used on the Abraham Lincoln were from the Olympian Hiawatha. The CN bought ALL the Olympian Hiawatha sleepers and superdomes long before Amtrak.

Randy

[Paradise275]

I pulled this off the internet. It shows a 15 car train.

A sample 1953 consist:
1.Mail and Express 1208
2.Baggage Express 1336
3.Baggage Dormitory 1309
4.Coach 480
5.Coach 481
6.Coach 482
7.Tap Lounge “Tip Top Grill” 164
8.Touralux Tourist 14-section sleeper Mt. St. Helens
9.Touralux Tourist 14-section sleeper Mt. Tacoma
10.Diner 122
11.Super Dome Lounge 53
12.8-duplex roomette, 6-roomette, 4-double bedroom sleeper Yellowstone River
13.10-roomette, 6-double bedroom sleeper Lake Coeur d’Alene
14.10-roomette, 6-double bedroom sleeper Lake Pend Oreille
15.Skytop 8-double bedroom sleeper lounge-observation Gold Creek

Rick

[nickelplate759]

What about power? No electrics are being offered, but Kato is offering an ABA set of F units. Were other types mixed in during the time when this paint scheme was in use?  For example, would an FM get mixed in?   I'm looking for an opportunity to be plausibly different from the default Kato power and I happen to have an old Erie-built shell handy.

George