Micro-Trains Pennsy Heavyweights

[Roger Holmes]

With all the raves I am considering buying the new K-4 in pre-war black.  I've always had a soft spot for Pennsy passenger engines and they did frequent Chicago.

Here's the problem--I have checked Feather River, MBK, BLW, Walthers, eBay and Amazon and can readily find the Diner, Baggage, RPO and two different 12-1 sleepers and that's it. No coaches, Parlor, Observation, etc.

If I buy one what am I going to pull with it?

[Dave V]

What you can find is a start.  The MTL coach is not really a PRR P70, so much like the RPO it'll have to be a stand-in.  I know people have strong opinions about eBay, but if you're not averse, I see the full compliment of MTL's PRR heavyweight offerings on eBay most of the time.  There was a club and a parlor out there.

For authentic PRR head-end, you need to check out hell Gate Models.  I don't think they've got any stock at the moment, but again, eBay might prove useful.

A P70 can be made by modernizing the Lima/Model Power heavyweight coach...if you can find proper 2D-P5 passenger trucks.  Their availability is spotty as well.

One note...  The MTL heavyweights come with the double-stripe along the belt rail and single stripe below the letter board.  This was more common post-war, about the same time the locomotive fleet (including the K4s) were getting the drop-pilots and "beautification."  Prior to the mid-40s, the cars generally had just the PENNSYLVANIA name on the letterboard with no striping.  I'm sure slat-piloted K4s mixed with striped passenger cars (in fact, a few K4s retained their slat pilots till the end), but it was less common than the post-war K4 with the postwar scheme of the MTL cars.

That said, if I buy a second K4 I intend to get the pre-war version and run it on my 1956 layout anyway, because I think they look better like that.  Rule 1.   

[dougnelson]

Hi Roger:

Actually, there are so many possibilities for PRR passenger cars, it is hard to know where to begin.  Some require work and painting/lettering to make acceptable, but if you prefer ready to run there are also many options.  Depending on your era, you can always mix in some lightweight passenger cars with a heavyweight consist as this was common in the 1950s, and somewhat the 1940s.  You can also model mail and express trains that had any variety of headend equipment including Railway Express, Pacific Fruit Express, and numerous other express carriers.  These trains usually had either a rider coach or N5 express cabin car on the end.  In the 1950s PRR trains also carried cars from connecting railroads in regional and transcontinental service, so you commonly saw cars for Santa Fe, UP, C&O, Southern, ACL, and others.  Below is a MTL coach with some simple modifications for a P70 - roof vents and ice AC.  The window pattern is an exact match for a P70:



you can also check out some of my Youtube videos that show complete consists:
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[Sokramiketes]

With all the raves I am considering buying the new K-4 in pre-war black.  I've always had a soft spot for Pennsy passenger engines and they did frequent Chicago.

Here's the problem--I have checked Feather River, MBK, BLW, Walthers, eBay and Amazon and can readily find the Diner, Baggage, RPO and two different 12-1 sleepers and that's it. No coaches, Parlor, Observation, etc.

If I buy one what am I going to pull with it?

Be a man, buy two K4's and put them in front of a Broadway Limited!

[sd45elect2000]

Wouldn't it be just as correct to use a string of green cars from the Pullman pool ? The green cars are fairly easy to get still.

[drgw0579]

>.if you can find proper 2D-P5 passenger trucks.  Their availability is spotty as well.

They are available 3D-printed on Shapeways: http://www.shapeways.com/product/WTLPCSYMJ/n-scale-1-160-prr-passenger-truck-2d-p5-friction?li=search-results-1&optionId=40387887

Now having said that, you might need to be real careful when you work with FUD components which are being used in a manner when there is a lot lot of stress.  They  can be brittle and rough handling could cause them to break.  Don't ask me how I know this.

Bill Kepner

[Roger Holmes]

Thanks for all of the replies.  I am heavily into modeling The Milwaukee Road (particularly around Chicago) so the K-4 is more of a whim than a serious modeling project. That's why I'm looking to populate the consist with MT heavyweights.  But they did run to Chicago and I had an HO Penn Line (now Bowser) E-6 as a kid and I've always liked the Belpaire firebox so there's some history behind my K-4 longings.

Sokramiketes--when you mention Broadway Limited I assume you aren't referring to the Kato smoothsides--or am I wrong?  BTW, I'm already a man, I don't have any C&NW on my layout

[Sokramiketes]

Sokramiketes--when you mention Broadway Limited I assume you aren't referring to the Kato smoothsides--or am I wrong?  BTW, I'm already a man, I don't have any C&NW on my layout

Well said! 

Kato set is the 1949 Broadway Limited... The K4's were still running then, but someone would have to confirm that they would have still pulled the Broadway on occasion after the E7's were delivered.

[altohorn25]

Thanks for all of the replies.  I am heavily into modeling The Milwaukee Road (particularly around Chicago) so the K-4 is more of a whim than a serious modeling project. That's why I'm looking to populate the consist with MT heavyweights.  But they did run to Chicago and I had an HO Penn Line (now Bowser) E-6 as a kid and I've always liked the Belpaire firebox so there's some history behind my K-4 longings.

Sokramiketes--when you mention Broadway Limited I assume you aren't referring to the Kato smoothsides--or am I wrong?  BTW, I'm already a man, I don't have any C&NW on my layout

Where is the "like" button when you need it

Nate

[Dave V]

Well said! 

Kato set is the 1949 Broadway Limited... The K4's were still running then, but someone would have to confirm that they would have still pulled the Broadway on occasion after the E7's were delivered.

It's generally accepted in SPF circles that the 1949 Broadway Limited equipment was exclusively diesel-hauled outside of electrified territory.  That said, never say never with Pennsy.  By the early 50s, K4s were helping on the Curve, and so a K4 leading a pair of E8s headed over the hill west of Altoona would be entirely appropriate for the 1949 (Kato) BL.  But I've not seen any photographic or anecdotal evidence of K4s hauling the '49 BL on the flat.

[Mark5]

I've yet to see a shred of evidence that would support a K4 on the 1949 & up Broadway Limited in any capacity.

But ya never know, there may be a photo languishing in an attic somewhere!

Mark

[eric220]

Might be an opportune time for MicroTrains to do another run (if not runner packs) of PRR coaches and parlors. I know I'm in for several of each. How 'bout it, @Shipsure ? 

[towl1996]

I was told adamantly told by others on this board that the K4s never pulled the "modern" Broadway Limited. "Officially", it may not have supposed to have happened, but I find it hard to believe that during the transition from steam to diesel that it didn't happen. However, reality is what you make it. 

[Dave V]

Kalmbach's Heart of the Pennsylvania Railroad shows a K4 helping a pair of E7s on a blue ribbon train in '49 or so at the Curve, but it was during the daytime so it was probably The Spirit of St Louis or some other daytime train.  The problem we have with photographic evidence of K4s helping on the Broadway is that the Broadway crossed the mountains in darkness.

But I agree, I've seen no photographic evidence of K4s on the '49 Broadway in any capacity.

[eric220]

The PRR ran an ad bragging about the "all-diesel power" for blue ribbon trains.  I've been trying to track down when that ad was run.  It shows DGLE 5-stripe E's, PA's, and Centipedes on point, so it must be before 1952, when passenger diesels went to tuscan and the Baldwins were reassigned to freight service, and likely before 1948, when the Centipedes were taken off of dedicated passenger runs and placed in dual service roles.  The Pennsy had plenty of diesels on hand by then to power the Broadway exclusively by diesel power.  I'm sure if you look hard enough, it happened at some point that steam power was used as more than snappers with the 1949 re-equip cars; but especially if the PRR was advertising on the point, it's relegated to an "Ed's Law" situation.