Kato FEF

[victor miranda]

one does wonder....
I don't think they are that formal.
If one maker stated they are doing something new
the others tend to shy away because there is a limited sales volume
and toe to toe competition tends to hurt both.

... there does also seem to be a limit to the above.
kinda like ; you can claim you are doing a sw1500 for about 5 to 10 years
and then some one else will do it...

and sometimes it seems they hide the projects
and we get our choice of FT manufacturers and features.

victor

[peteski]

Do the loco manufacturers have a secret meeting where they agree not make something another is working on.
There is generally not much duplication.

It seems to be just the opposite.  We have plenty of duplication from various manufacturers.  F units, GP units, and even some of the newer GEVO units.  In steam Big Boy was made by 2 manufacturers and so is the Berkshire.  There were few Mikados too.  I wish manufacturers would get together and not have so much duplication but more variety.  Then again, even duplicate models are all slightly different.  I guess it is not a bad thing.

[draskouasshat]

 Victor

I agree that it's not the road name that just sold it.  it's the fact that it's a well known and publicized locomotive. I remember seeing it as a kid and getting my picture in front of a driver.  it caters to more than just niche market (like the k4 is in).  yes some people will buy it because it's a well engineered mechanism and might do a conversion but take it from someone that has been converting Kato northerns  since they came off the boat, there aren't many of us willing to chop a $200  locomotive up. heck  they could  bring out  a k4 with the best n  scale mechanism  to date and I wouldn't buy it and  neither would many others. I literally know one guy in all of kansas city that models prr and  he doesn't even model where they ran.
  Kato built the gs4 fef  for a reason and its because they will sell all over the country.  the notoriety of a product is the selling point and that alone sold god knows how many units

[victor miranda]

It is fun to agree.  seems a little strange to me...

I have floated the idea that famous engines need to be made.
if they are still running out in our world even more reason.

I would like to point out that the Southern 4-6-2 (I think it is a PS4?) in the Smithsonian
is famous, photogenic, and was supposed to be preserved in operational condition.

I have little doubt that loco would sell well.  yet it is not done in n-scale...

You benefit from my love of steam engines in that I tend to buy without much discrimination.
I have come to see that Kato said the gs-4 outsold the GG1  and so is inclined to do western stuff.
Dang. (so I shoulda used the coin  from the GS-4 + cars purchase for the broadway,
If I wanted to send a different signal... and you are welcome. no need to thank me.)

And while you state you will not buy an eastern rail lines steam engine (you were specific,
I are not as concerned and I don't feel the need to rub it in...)
You do not need to make it a Fight.  You will benefit from any steam engine being popular.
I have little doubt that there are a similar number of fellows who will not buy the FEF as
there are who will not buy the PRR steamer.

and all that is negative.

Kato is making loco's they think will sell.
If Kato keeps the same level of performance on what ever steam engine they make.
it will sell.  Even if they make a mo-pac atlantic...

   you can not-buy that, too.

victor

[victor miranda]

I think the K4 will happen as a Bachmann DCC/Sound locomotive.  I also think this is what's kept anyone else from trying.


Jason

as I drifted to sleep last night...
I realized this wish (that b-mann make a k4) was even more horrible than continuing to live with the trix...

hohohohohohohohohohhoho
I still think you are mean mean mean
hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoho

strange what one finds scary.

victor

[pjm20]

I'd love if Bachmann made a K4, Spectrum's a great line of products. Hell, all I want is somebody to make a pre-war K4! Anybody!

[draskouasshat]

 Victor
I not necessarily picking on the eastern roads.  the j  class and em1  seem to be doing great and  the m1  sounds promising .  the point I'm making is that popularity sells.  they make what will make them the most money in their eyes and that's the preserved popular stream that travels all over the country.  yes there's very notable ones like 3751  that have been left out as of yet and I could use that more than the fef.  I own 1 fef and  will pick up a second if  they do greyhound.
 here's the biggest issue I see. n  scale is young compared to the other larger scales.  they have the modeler base to make every steamer in ho. n scale  hasn't had the good quality steam  for modelers to pick up and pick that era.  most of our equipment has always been post transition era from the beginning. look at how many people have said that xxxxxxx  is my first steam engine ever. I  do believe that if they start with the well  known stuff first and get people into steam, it could be expanded on later.

 worst part is I would buy an Atlantic victor.  one did end up on Cajon pass!

[victor miranda]

hi draskouasshat.

we may well be saying exactly the same thing...
just getting there by very different thinking.

lets get to the important part part first.
you have a good photoshopped photo of an atlantic on the Cajon Pass!?!?
!!!! I want to see it!!!!

I hope you are laughing.

you said in one of your sentences "n scale  hasn't had the good quality steam
for modelers to pick up..."

please realize this is exactly why older n-scale steam does not (didn't) sell well.
there are only a few models that one can buy and expect will
give good reliable service.

you even named close to half of those locos.
if you ignore the Kato 4-6-4 and 2-8-2... all the others are
less than (!!!) 8 years old... ( I may have to go look up the J release date)

the performance from the named ones is a biiiiig reason they sell.
the most recent J by b-mann seems to have sold well.
it replaced the previous J... sold well you may say
despite having a privious version...

any one who had to have a J... had one.
why did they buy a newer version?
I think, and you may not agree, they wanted one that ran reliably?

the heavy mountin vs the lt mountain is not as clear...
Is b-mann still selling the light one?

all that is said to support the point that
"it will sell, if it runs well."

I definitely agree that the choice of any iconic loco helps sales.
it is not the overall driver of the sale.
(look at the Kato Mike, how is that iconic?)

to be clear here I also know that how it runs
is not a leading sales driver by itself. ( it will drive a second sale
as I'll try to expalin a little later)

so a sale is driven by details AND performance AND specific prototype
in any order... (price is in there somewhere...)

the second sale will or won't happen depending largely
on how the model performed on the track.

I think Kato's FEF will sell well for many years
mostly depending on how the motor holds up.

victor


PS I was going to stop there and I realized that
I wanted to share one other thought.

over the past year, the prices on e-bay 
for n-scale steam models have been floating upward...

I am thinking part of this may be new to n-scale people
who have the more recent offerings are looking to expand their collections.
so I am thinking; they like how they run and want more.

[jdcolombo]

It is fun to agree.  seems a little strange to me...

I have floated the idea that famous engines need to be made.
if they are still running out in our world even more reason.

I would like to point out that the Southern 4-6-2 (I think it is a PS4?) in the Smithsonian
is famous, photogenic, and was supposed to be preserved in operational condition.

I have little doubt that loco would sell well.  yet it is not done in n-scale...

You benefit from my love of steam engines in that I tend to buy without much discrimination.
I have come to see that Kato said the gs-4 outsold the GG1  and so is inclined to do western stuff.
Dang. (so I shoulda used the coin  from the GS-4 + cars purchase for the broadway,
If I wanted to send a different signal... and you are welcome. no need to thank me.)

And while you state you will not buy an eastern rail lines steam engine (you were specific,
I are not as concerned and I don't feel the need to rub it in...)
You do not need to make it a Fight.  You will benefit from any steam engine being popular.
I have little doubt that there are a similar number of fellows who will not buy the FEF as
there are who will not buy the PRR steamer.

and all that is negative.

Kato is making loco's they think will sell.
If Kato keeps the same level of performance on what ever steam engine they make.
it will sell.  Even if they make a mo-pac atlantic...

   you can not-buy that, too.

victor

I have high hopes for the Bachmann Berkshire, which will be released both as 765 in its current livery and as 759, after restoration as a railfan loco.  765 is of course the more famous of the two, and I'm glad Bachmann is doing this.

But I'd pay a LOT for a version from Kato based on the FEF's design.   It is by far the best running steam loco I've seen in N - smooth as silk.  Nevertheless, if Bachmann's version runs as well as the EM-1, I'll be happy.

John C.

[draskouasshat]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] yes a 4-4-2 Atlantic  on Cajon helping 4-8-4 3768 with the  chief.

 you are getting my point.  in the last ten years, nscale  steam had come to age with good running, reliable, well detailed  engines.  the number of people willing to buy and run steam will grow.  people that bought the old junk got a bad taste in their mouth and left steam for dead.  now it's better and hopefully modelers will buy more steam.  with more buyers, manufacturers will hopefully decide to put out more and more models,  possibly even a k4.

 but on a marketing side note,  sex sells right?  you could have a1000hp dodge viper sitting  next to a 1500hp dodge diesel  sitting outside the bar,  which one will the hot blonde pick?

[victor miranda]

I'll go with the girl who picks the Honda insight I drove...

I have never been able to figure out what hot chica think.

[peteski]

I have never been able to figure out what hot chica think.

My comment is ... no comment.

[victor miranda]

draskouasshat.
your photo shop skills are unparalleled!
 

kidding aside,
Cool photo!  I guess I have the illusion that few roads ran Atlantics.
so seeing another line uses (used) them makes me smile.

what is the book?
who knows I may find a copy I can afford.

victor

[draskouasshat]

iron horses of the Santa fe

[Specter3]

New Haven had 12 that ran from 1907 until the early 40s. B&M had very similar locos as well. They were used primarily in passenger service.


[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
Photo from Edward Ozog's site

B&M had 41 of these
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]