DC (not DCC) operating system

[Dave V]

Jeez, a debate on DC versus DCC?  That's SO last decade...   

[eric220]

Although I'm a firm believer in DCC and its advantages, have you looked at the MRC Tech6?  It's not wireless, but it does offer DC walkaround capabilities.

[kalbert]

I would like to inject my 2¢ about DCC... You're all going to crap on this but... You can get a Command 2000 for <$15 if you shop around, and it might include a walk around throttle or any number of other accessories. No it isn't very fancy, in fact, it's barely better than a DC cab. No sound, no functions, no speed matching. I think you can set the starting point. Maybe. But it will run up to 10 locos with a decoders, and you can get your feet in the door of DCC. It will also run a single DC cab so you don't have to convert everything, you can still run the 'old fasioned' stuff. You'll either be hooked and wish you had a better unit, or not, either way you're only out $15 and can easily recoup your investment.

That said, I'm not convinced DCC is for me, yet... I'm the only one running trains, er.. train. One engine consist. I can do that with a 12v wall wart and a home made pwm throttle and it suits my need fine. If some day I should decide I need working beacons, or expand to run larger trains with multiple engines I have no doubt that DCC will be the way to go.

[Loren Perry]

My "Hollywood Railroad" as seen in N-Scale magazine over the past few years runs on the GML DC system. Here's the link to their website:

http://www.thegmlenterprises.com/

For hard-core DC users, this is one fine system. Virtually bulletproof, simple to work with, and ultra reliable. I love it. Very easy to connect and operate and excellent throttle response. In five years of use, I have never, ever damaged anything or burned out anything other than a few fuses here and there when I shorted out some track, etc.

Even the appearance has a nice industrial look to it with no gaudy graphics. I may be old school to the extreme, but this product line is top notch in my eyes. And I don't have to worry about spending the rest of my life disassembling and surgically installing delicate decoders in my collection of over one hundred locomotives.

[unittraincoal]

I already know I am going with DC.....This was never suppose to be a debate. I know the advantages of DCC.  Perhaps I will go with DCC someday...but not today!

This was only a thread about  power supply and throttles...... WOW!

Back to on-track... Anyone know when the new throttle for MRC's 9950 pack is supposed to be out?

[peteski]

I already know I am going with DC.....This was never suppose to be a debate. I know the advantages of DCC.  Perhaps I will go with DCC someday...but not today!

This was only a thread about  power supply and throttles...... WOW!

Back to on-track... Anyone know when the new throttle for MRC's 9950 pack is supposed to be out?

The 3rd and 4th posts at the top of this thread pretty much set the tone of this thread (turning it into the DC vs. DCC thread).  I predicted it in the 5th post from the top. 

Max (in the 7th post from the top) nicely summarized the reason why this thread would turn into this debate: the vague way you asked the question. I don't blame you - you simply didn't know any better.  Just let it be, you still got lots of useful DC-only input. Things will slowly die down here. 

[rsn48]

In the old Atlas forum, when DCC/DC battles broke out I used to say - I wish that forums had been up and running when folks went from car battery to power pack, there would have been wars.  In fact, a dear friend who passed on due a bad stroke used to use a car battery, it drove me nuts and I gave him an MRC power pack.  He dearly wanted to run some of his stock on my layout and I said after one year if you want to continue running on my layout you'll have to purchase a DCC  (Digitrax) throttle, to my amazement he agreed.  Now you need to know I had four throttles for a two/three man layout capacity operation.  I just wanted to know he would be okay with DCC (I would have never held him to purchasing a throttle).

DCC/DC wars are over and the victor is DCC, if for no other reason than it is what today's generation of kids and young adults expect; they would consider DC dark ages and wonder why a computer wasn't involved.  What I found humorous was my son worked for an excellent MRR retailer in Vancouver, they sold him the Digitrax chief for his 2 1/2 feet by 7 foot N scale layout (at a heavy discount) so he could run Digitrax at the local show to illustrate how simple the system was because a young teen was running it.  I used to maintain they should get an 80 year old to run and say look this is so simple - George can do it.

Just as we moved on from car battery to power pack, so we have moved on from DC to DCC with the realization that some are still running DC, but I bet most don't know some are still using car batteries only.  So if some one says they want to run DC, many of us try to persuade him other wise as we suspect somewhere along the line he will end up DCC, so we try to save him some money.

[C855B]

I already know I am going with DC.....This was never suppose to be a debate. I know the advantages of DCC.  Perhaps I will go with DCC someday...but not today!

This was only a thread about  power supply and throttles...... WOW!
...

Welllllll... what happened was you started the discussion with this:

... The mainline run will be roughly 180 feet.........

The natural reaction of many of us was "Wow... that's a lot of railroad to manage with DC. And probably multiple trains, too." It fell apart from there.

I like Loren's solution, however. IIRC, I've used it on a friend's layout which is also on the large side and has a similar amount of mainline. It was nice solution for basic loop running given a mild amount of "operations".

[robert3985]

Does it count if some of us have actually tried DCC and went, "nope"? Don't get me wrong; I "get it" and I fully appreciate its advantages. There simply aren't any advantages for me. As for "LESS expensive because of the simplified wiring", I sense just a whiff of meadow muffin here... I can buy an awful lot of wire and toggles for the cost of a DCC base station and a bunch of decoders. And as for sound, that's a matter of taste; not all of us get big you-know-what eating grins from the crappy noise N scale locos make...

Oh, and do you advise "just don't park 'em on a live track for more than a minute or two" because of the supposed heating effect of the DCC signal on a DC motor? I've parked a variety of different non-equipped locos on live DCC track for hours on end, and they hardly got even slightly warm. I must conclude it's a myth. Either that, or I'm not doing it right--I suppose I must learn how to property damage motors.

"That's probably why we encourage buying DCC instead of buying DC." Who's this "we"? I'm not trying to turn anyone away from DCC... just trying to keep the hype in check.

Who's keepin' count?  Not me. 

My advice comes from my experience.  Not a single unsupported claim,  but I'm not getting into it here.  If the OP wants DC only, then more power to him.

But, there's no way in hell that I'd ever go back to DC...unless an EMP burst cooks all my electronics.

It's good to have you back DKS!!  Jumpin' in with both feet! 

[randgust]

OK, so maybe a futile attempt at focus-steering....  (and some help for Max)...

The one-track vs. two-track main thing is for two operators in DC.  If you have two operators moving two trains against each other on a single-track main line with passing sidings, both of you are going to be concentrating on the blocks ahead of you and behind you on 'who has them'.  The only way to really simplify it is to reduce the number of blocks in contention between sidings.    If you have a two-track main line, each operator has his own 'main' to play on with little or no toggle-flipping at all until trains cross, switch, etc.   The basement-sized nightmare I was referring to in DC was a double-track main line with six main-line blocks on rotary switches.  I wouldn't wish that on anybody, one 'miss' on block assignment and all "EL" broke loose with runaway trains and dead shorts.  Each 'town' had its own panel, and it was a cross-basement race for block assignment and yelling commands.  Terrible memories.   DCC was wonderful for that one.

So the design of the layout has a lot to do with how annoying the DC toggle-flipping can be, not just the length, and if you really want just one operator or two on it.   

90% of my speed matching problems on DC disappeared about 1977 when I got my first transistor walkaround throttle, so nothing to be gained there.   Both the decoders and sound simply lighten locomotives when I have a layout with long trains and 2.5% grades that needs everything they can put out - that's one of the most significant decisions for me not to move over.   

My small and geared steam is still right on the edge of whether or not you can successfully get a decoder in it.  I can get one in on the 18-ton Climax, but it's a struggle and has resulted in a couple fried decoders, just jammed in too tight.  Some have worked and some didn't.  What has stunned me is that they'd run in DC mode and went 'POOF' on DCC, still working on that one. 

[kalbert]

I already know I am going with DC.....This was never suppose to be a debate. I know the advantages of DCC.  Perhaps I will go with DCC someday...but not today!

This was only a thread about  power supply and throttles...... WOW!

Back to on-track... Anyone know when the new throttle for MRC's 9950 pack is supposed to be out?

Welcome to TRW! A place where ambiguous posts trigger 10 page circular debates.

[DKS]

DCC/DC wars are over...

LMAO...

[mmagliaro]

Welcome to TRW! A place where ambiguous posts trigger 10 page circular debates.

When I first posted that unittraincoal should be more specific about his layout and plans to use it,
I was fearing that the ambiguity would result in lots of debate about how to wire a DC system, how to set up blocks,
and what throttle systems to buy.  I didn't expect the ambiguity to result in a DCC vs DC argument.
Randgust: Now I get you.  I wasn't thinking about multiple operators.  I was just thinking about a single
operator parking a train in a siding.

So far there are the two sources I cited for DC throttles, plus whatever MRC has to offer.  I'll see if I can find more.

[eric220]

I'm not sure how electronically inclined you are, but have you considered progressive cab control? It's a relay system that automatically assigns and releases blocks so you don't have to worry about flipping toggle switches. It's a lot more complex than a traditional DC setup, but it can allow for a DCC-like experience when operating. As a bonus, since the system needs to know about occupancy and makes decisions based on occupancy, it already contains all the logic you need to do approah lit signaling. Of course, this all assumes that you're interested in running multiple trains at once or having multiple operators.

On an interesting side note, a friend of mine who has been using the system for decades recently replaced one of the DC cabs with a DCC system. It worked flawlessly, and he can now run DC and DCC on the same layout. So that's one way that you can leave the door open to DCC at some point down the road, whenever you want it.

[Blazeman]

This was another very detailed exchange, what I've come to expect from the members. From it came two suppliers of DC hand-helds. When I started reading this, there were none to be had except on the secondary market.

So I went from feeling left out and behind the times (probably still am) by not embracing DCC, to feeling I can pull off what I want to do. But on the other hand, if I was about 25 years less in age with fewer locomotives to convert, I'd probably be asking for recommendations on DCC options.

One thing though that I can't get straight with DCC.....cutting gaps in switches. Is that a requirement? Nothing mentioned about that in this thread.