Weathering with pan pastels per MR article by T. Koester

[DKS]

Everyone who offered an answer is refuting the claim "that no fixative is needed."

Please re-read my lecture; I think you are missing something, specifically the point "It is not a general-purpose weathering article."

If that doesn't work, then try this: No fixative is required under the circumstances of weathering a steam locomotive. If that doesn't trigger a spark of understanding, then I cannot help you.

[davefoxx]

Roger,

You're doing nothing wrong, but, as Dave Vollmer said on the last page, "I think your question was in fact answered, i.e., some fixative is needed if the piece is to be handled."  It's as simple as that.

DFF

[Dave V]

If you're asking if any of us have tried this technique and succeeded without fixative then I think the answer is a resounding "no."

[ednadolski]

His goal was not an article on sloppy or hasty weathering or trying to under cut the clock.

I think that the two headlines (including the cover!), the four photos with stopwatches, and the (at least) three references in the text to elapsed time all contribute to the impression of an emphasis on fast results.  That sort of thing is a disservice to the readers, because it is far more likely to lead to frustration for the readers (especially novices) who will try it only to discover that they don't get the same results in the same time.   The confusion here about the need for a fixative is demonstrative of that. 

With almost any technique (paint, powder, chalk, ...)  you will need a clear flat coat or fixative before and after if you want something that will stand up against even minimal handling.  It's unfortunate that Koester and MR could not be bothered to mention that, altho I suppose it would have added too much time to their "7 minutes" claims.

Ed

[train1]

Can't wait for the 'quick weathering for LEGO trackside structures' article.
Just saying...

[Ian MacMillan]

I like turtles

[Dave V]

Frankly if weathering with pastels or powders. I'd recommend Dullcote before and after application, with the first coat giving some tooth for the color to adhere to.

[robwill84]

[tom mann]

I suppose we could have learned other, more rub-proof weathering techniques during the time it has taken to criticize David's (and other's) responses.

[delamaize]

[FrankCampagna]

Another Railwire food fight.

[kalbert]

Ok... Against my better judgement, I skimmed it again to see if I could draw another perspective from it, but no I can't see the opposing viewpoint others have found. 

The article starts off with the premise that a large railroad like his requires a large fleet of rolling stock. He indicates that he admires his friends for having a rule that no cars roll without some weathering to knock down the shine and he has made a conscious effort to implement this as he also does not care for the look of out of the box cars. This is not that unusual, some members of this and other forums are of the same mindset. No car rolls the rails without knocking down the shine first. There is certainly nothing wrong with this view point, I tend to agree although time and fear of ruining expensive stuff prevents me from following through. Here are a few quotes from within the article.

After weathering 20 of his freight cars to a level he was personally satisfied with in 45 minutes time he states:
"I'm not claiming this method is a superior way to weather cars. However, I am saying that I can't think of a much quicker and less painful way to get a flet of formerly to-new-looking cars out on the railroad."

After using a stop watch to measure the amount of time it took to use the same technique and achieve satisfactory results on a locomotive:
"To be sure, I've seen better weathering jobs, but that isn't the point. The concern here was to find a simple way to get a lot of cars and locomotives weathered quickly. By using the same tools and materials but taking a little or a lot more time, I'm sure even better results can be obtained with a little practice"

I guess you are all free to interpret the article however you like, some people think man walked in a desert in Nevada not on the moon too. 

The part that pertains to the original question does leave some room for debate and helpful suggestions:
"These products aren't quite like the popular and very useful weathering powders in that they tend to bond to the matte surface being weathered. I don't even need to apply a fixative (clear coat) after applying them."

My takeaway from that statement is that he must weather his cars, place them on the layout fairly permanently, and does not frequently handle them. The article does not mention using this product on things other than freight cars and a locomotive, so I assume he has not tried it elsewhere. Having not used the product myself my observation probably isn't very worth while, but I would expect that on cars that are handled frequently, like those that would be boxed up and transported to a club layout or exhibition, would likely need something to protect the weathering from rubbing off. Being I have a number of cars that I would like to weather, and time seems to be a precious commodity, perhaps I will invest in the PanPastel kit and give it a go. I will probably seal mine up with something though, as I do not have room on the layout for everything and do handle them quite a bit putting them in and out of storage. At least I will have tried something new to me. If kids in the 50's hadn't tried to dye sawdust green to make grass how would we have gotten past plywood meadows?

[Pete Steinmetz]

Based on info from other Yahoo Groups I bought a few colors and tried them out. (I even did a clinic Last Saturday titled "Weathering with Pastels, Pigments, and Pencils") I like the pastels, but wouldn't use them exclusively.  They are a good addition to working with paints, washes, pigments, and pencils. 

As far as Speed Weathering goes.  Some weathering is better than none.  I did a quicky N Scale boxcar red box car.  It took about 2 minutes.  I chose a color close to boxcar red.  I used a very light application and it made the paint fade nicely.  At that point I could have stopped and had an acceptable weathered box. I used pigments to blend the Pan Pastels in and make the weathering more random.

Pan Pastels like to be put on with a makeup sponge or other applicators with foam on the tip.  Brushes work, but are not the best.

Color intensity depends on how much pressure is put on the sponge while applying the pastels.  More pressure will yield more opaque results.

Pete Steinmetz

[Bruce Bird]

Ban-worthy? Must've missed something....

[ednadolski]

Some weathering is better than none.

Welll, not always....   

Ed