Weathering with pan pastels per MR article by T. Koester

[tehachapifan]

I don't think speaking negatively on a particular article or issue means that someone doesn't like the magazine in general.

[delamaize]

IMO, this was one of the worst articles I've ever seen in MR. It should never have made it to press. Worthless.

THIS.

also, the "weathering" on the locomotive in the cover shot is horrible.

[jimmo]

I've used that same technique on wooden structures, except that I start with a base coat of primer grey; white tends to make the structure too brilliant, to my eye.



Full article: http://jamesriverbranch.net/project_13a.htm

I see your point, but I'm looking it as a canvas taking whatever colors I want to apply. Light grey would be alright but most primer greys appear too dark to me. I usually start the procedure by toning down the white with yellow or tan. Since the colors are very subtle, it's easy to control the tones. Most of these finishes require a few treatments of chalk as they have to be built up. The use of Testors DullCote is a must.

[jimmo]

THIS.

also, the "weathering" on the locomotive in the cover shot is horrible.

I think the look of the cover photo is more the fault of the photo's lighting more than anything else.

[mcjaco]

I don't think speaking negatively on a particular article or issue means that someone doesn't like the magazine in general.

Except it always seems the same people here that come out and have their say in these threads.

My Mom ran a custom craft rubber stamp business for the past 15 years.  Towards the end she was a sales rep for Pan Pastels as well.  She gave me all of her overstock when she retired last January....I think I have 100 different colors now, with all the brushes.  I've been anxiously waiting for five minutes of free time to try them out on a some rolling stock, and here, here, it looks like it can be done in seven minutes.  Good on you MR. 

[C855B]

I haven't read MR in years so certainly can't address the article's substance. But based on the discussion here, I would consider the "How fast can you effectively weather?" component an interesting and useful study.

Bluntly, I can count the number of cars I have weathered on one hand. Yet in my 45 years in N I have accumulated several hundred cars and probably (who's counting?) 100+ locomotives, which all are in need of some level of weathering if I want to achieve the "ambiance" thing I keep telling myself that I want. If the implied standard of a "quality" weathering job requires an hour or more of dedicated effort for each piece, then the queue for rolling stock needing weathering is most certainly going to outlive me.

IOW, discussion of time-efficient methods to achieve maybe a 90%-quality result are worthwhile. If the article's techniques fall short on quality results, that's one thing, but the concept that execution time is important is valid.

[ednadolski]

I think it was meant to show that improving the appearance of a model with weathering need not be a time consuming process

"improving" is the operative word.   Can a hastily-done weathering job be an "improvement"?   It's in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

What bugs me the most about that sort of article is the emphasis on fast results over developing any sort of skill or technique.  To me, you don't get something for nothing, and weathering is like many other things where you get out of it what you put into it.  I would rather have a smaller number of decently done models than a large number of hastily done models that I would not want to look at.

I'm a long-time subscriber to MR, and I still consider it a canonical publication, but if they are going to make a habit of catering toward the "fast results" options, then no one should be too surprised when some folks start mentioning them along with "Outcome-Based Toy Railroading" magazine.   

Ed

Edit:  Looks like I went against my own previous "no-bash" disclaimer. but I don't think I care.   Some things need to be called out for what they are.

[mcjaco]

"improving" is the operative word.   Can a hastily-done weathering job be an "improvement"?   It's in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

Honestly, if he didn't use the brown on the drivers, would that model have looked so bad?  I don't think so.  His technique was ok, it was his color choice. 

Once again, it's a hobby.  Some take it more seriously than others. I know that I can pump out a fairly well weathered car in seven minutes (without this article's help) with chalks, and washes.  Since the publication is more geared towards beginners, seven minutes is a very digestable time frame to try to weather a car with the pastels for someone wanting to try a new technique. 

At the end of the day, they're still toy trains.....

[kalbert]

"improving" is the operative word.   Can a hastily-done weathering job be an "improvement"?   It's in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

What bugs me the most about that sort of article is the emphasis on fast results over developing any sort of skill or technique.  To me, you don't get something for nothing, and weathering is like many other things where you get out of it what you put into it.  I would rather have a smaller number of decently done models than a large number of hastily done models that I would not want to look at.

I'm a long-time subscriber to MR, and I still consider it a canonical publication, but if they are going to make a habit of catering toward the "fast results" options, then no one should be too surprised when some folks start mentioning them along with "Outcome-Based Toy Railroading" magazine.   

Ed

Edit:  Looks like I went against my own previous "no-bash" disclaimer. but I don't think I care.   Some things need to be called out for what they are.

I think you're missing the point and trying to imply that his goal was to slob makeup on a model as quickly as possible with no regard to realism or quality. His goal was not an article on sloppy or hasty weathering or trying to under cut the clock. The article was about how with minimal time investment the appearance of the model can be dirtied up with simple weathering techniques. The result is not an award wining show piece, it is not supposed to be. For everyday running and as filler in a larger scene its appearance certainly would benefit from being dirtied up a bit. You'd probably choose a different model or put more time into weathering this one later if you planned to use it as the centerpiece of an "Is it a Model?" photo for MRH. Certainly you can also choose an all or nothing approach to your weathering if that's your thing. I'm not telling you you must weather all your models as fast as possible and neither is Koester. He's merely suggesting that if you don't care for a clean shiny out of the box model, you can dirty them up a bit without much time investment.

[davefoxx]

I think that it's important to remember who the audience for Koester's MR article is: beginners and those who are hesitant to try weathering (like colorblind me!).  Those of you who gave the article a thumbs down are not the audience.  You guys have proven your talents for weathering and modeling in general, and, clearly, you are beyond the informational and educational value of this article.  However, not all of us are as talented or own an airbrush.  And, some of us just need to see how easy it really is before we jump in.

I don't believe that Mr. Koester was trying to race the clock, but, instead, he was merely showing that with minimal efforts and time, you can weather your fleet.  The stopwatch was gimmicky, perhaps, but it was a way to show in a magazine the actual elapsed time of his efforts.

As for his technique, I thinks it's perfectly reasonable for dirtying up runners.  Contest quality, no, but it wasn't meant to be.  As for color, I'll leave that to you non-colorblind individuals.

DFF

[DKS]

He's merely suggesting that if you don't care for a clean shiny out of the box model, you can dirty them up a bit without much time investment.

Given the cost of the average steam locomotive, I can't believe anyone would endorse the path of least resistance for a weathering job. Besides, how many "runners" does the average modeler have? The stopwatch stunt more or less short-circuits any pretense of doing even a half-decent job, since it places more emphasis on time than on quality. Also, whether or not the poor quality of the cover photo was the photography or the weathering is immaterial; results are what count, and putting your worst foot forward is not the best way to endorse a cause. I think the whole concept was ill-conceived at best--IMO of course, but it appears I'm not alone. And it has little or nothing to do with MR; they just happened to be the messenger.

At the end of the day, they're still toy trains.....

So, is that the excuse or justification to do a sloppy job? Honestly, it doesn't take weeks of extra time to do it better, so why not shoot for quality versus time economy? Lose the stopwatch, and spend maybe a half-hour on a loco (is that too much time? Puh-lease) to achieve something that's not an embarrassment on the cover of MR.

[Sokramiketes]

I was surprised at how bad the cover shot looked.  But the travesty is using that cover shot to tie to the article, when the loco on the cover wasn't even weathered by Tony and wasn't completed per his article.

I still like MR enough to read cover to cover.  And if you read Neil's intro to the issue, you'll see that Cody did the engine on the cover, but used an airbrush on the running gear.  The running gear is what sticks out like a sore thumb, and it wasn't even done with Pan Pastels.

Pan Pastels arn't really like a chalk either, David.  It is a new medium.  And where did they say to put it on unpainted plastic?  They didn't. 

And if you compare Tony's Berk to the prototype photo of a Berk he was trying to match, well, it looks pretty close. 

I read the comments here and was expecting to laugh at the article, then went to read it, and Tony's engine really isn't that bad.  Those that frequent the RPM shows have probably seen a presentation or two on Pan Pastels, but how many articles have covered them? 

[DKS]

And where did they say to put it on unpainted plastic?  They didn't.

Neither did I. Please read my posts in context with the OP.

Pan pastels are not a new medium, just an old medium in a somewhat new-ish form of delivery that's still been around for a number of years. Pastels comprise pigments mixed with binders to form a convenient stick. For pan pastels, the amount of binder is reduced, leaving the pigment more like a pressed powder, not unlike makeup. Those who have used pastel sticks (also called generically "chalks," even though technically chalk refers to something else) for weathering often grind the sticks into powders for application with a brush, whereas the only significant difference is the amount of binder present. Just as many other similar artist's products have over the years, they seem new to non-artists when they suddenly get "discovered." Regardless, the bottom line is that chalks, pastels, powdered pigments, etc., all generally work on the same principles, with minor variations of the results depending on the amount of binder present in the material and its ability to adhere to the surface.

[rogergperkins]

My Question in this post is, "Did I do something incorrectly?"  The article states that " I don't even need to apply a fixative (clear coat) after applying them."
I respect the author and am not trying to bash him or MR. Just want to understand why 24 hours later, the product could be rubbed off with a paper towel.  ??
I was not focused on the  7 minute aspect in my question.

[DKS]

My Question in this post is, "Did I do something incorrectly?"  The article states that " I don't even need to apply a fixative (clear coat) after applying them."
I respect the author and am not trying to bash him or MR. Just want to understand why 24 hours later, the product could be rubbed off with a paper towel.  ??
I was not focused on the  7 minute aspect in my question.

The difference is that Koester is applying the pigments to a painted model. You were applying it to unpainted plastic. The paint on the model provides a surface to which the pigments can (tenuously) bond, whereas raw plastic is kind of like trying to get chalk to stick to glass. Also, I suspect that some of the pigment will come off his models if wiped, whereas normal (careful) handling isn't enough to disrupt the pigment appreciably.

What bugs me the most about that sort of article is the emphasis on fast results over developing any sort of skill or technique.

This.