Should for all n-scale locomotives come with DCC installed?

[peteski]

I'm also confused about the dual-mode question.  Evan back in late 90s, (non-sound of course) decoders were capable of operating on DC.  ON the other hand, I think that *ALL* of the currently available decoders (sound and non-sound) have capability to operate on DC. But the question is "how well?"

I like sound in the locomotives but I also believe in a scaled down sound. I don't expect a tummy-busting bass rumble emanating from a 4" long model. Low volume sound goes long way towards reducing the audible annoyance level. 

Also, because of the laws of acoustics, I don't think we'll ever be able to have a rich full-frequency spectrum sound fully contained in small N scale models. Well, at least in my lifetime. To get rich low frequency sound, lots of air needs to me moved. The tiny speakers just can't do that.  But higher frequency sounds (like whistles, horns, bells and even steam exhaust sound) are IMO fairly well reproduced, even using N scale sized speakers (again, at a low volume).  However I have not yet heard a decent sounding N scale diesel engine decoder. To me those all sound like noise.

The other problem I see with steam locomotives is that most modelers run their trains way too fast. This causes the properly synchronized exhaust chuffs to blend into a constant and annoying noise.  But when ran at realistic scale speeds, steam engines sound quite good.

[DKS]

No sound here, and I do speaker-ectomies on what I buy when there is no choice (Athearn big UP steam).

Sound is a novelty that becomes wearisome in a few minutes, and I still can't understand what it is other than greed that adds the ~$100 premium to sound encoders.

+1

When I'm visiting with a friend of mine who has sound in some of his locos, I will ask him to shut it down within about five minutes--that's about my tolerance limit. And if it's diesel, it's sooner.

[Dave V]

I used to think sound was the Holy Grail.  The prospect of a sound/DCC PRR M1a/b 4-8-2 from Precision Craft Fail Models is what got me into DCC in the first place.  Finally I got sound with my Walthers P2K/LL PRR HH1. 

I'll be honest.  Maybe if I had a huge layout and kept the volume way down it would never get old.  However, on my tiny little layout not only can you hear it everywhere in the layout room, you can hear it in the next room.  So it drones on and on, chug chug chug chug...fading only slightly every 30-40 seconds each time it enters the tunnel.

The novelty that sound provides in the first few minutes wears off completely each session, and in my mind in most cases doesn't justify the added expense.  Your milage may vary.

[TiVoPrince]

When
your train 'goes somewhere' or 'does some work' sound is useful and quite pleasant.  Looping sound around a small oval at a constant pace could get maddening in a hurry.  Although any train simply making loops tends to get old in a hurry, for me anyway. 

A brace of diesels struggling up a grade straining to make headway is why sound exists.  Even downgrade with screaming dynamics sound makes sense.   NTRAK is both a great display of sound for the public, but a full weekend of droning diesels and steamers has to be hard on the crew.  Someday I would hope for a layout that could accomodate sound where the SP 'oil cans' with nine units up front, five midtrain helpers, and seven pushers could closely surround me asendng or decending the Cuesta grade through the Goldtree loops.

The Atlas S is going to test a lot of wallets.  Switching tends to be an up close and personal experience where the throbbing diesel engine and squealing brakes can be appreciated as Nscale 'work' gets done.  If sound annoys you in that case, you may well be dead inside...

[Dave V]

I agree, a switcher might just be the right application of sound even for a small layout.  Especially if you observe proper etiquette such as sounding the bell and horn at appropriate times.

I'd still like someday to do a PRR H-class 2-8-0 kitbash with a Micro-Tsunami for use on the Lewistown local.  There'd be enough starts, stops, and direction changes to make it worth while...  and besides, I want to hear that screaming Banshee whistle!

[mmyers]

The only decoders I've run into since 1996 that were not dual mode are the old Soundtraxx decoders. Tsunami's are dual made.

[railnerd]

My basic question is: If a locomotive came dual mode and with either DCC sound or no sound which one would you purchase?  Thanks

If it fits, sound is awesome.  Like others on the forum, I'm really hoping that the Atlas S2 goes well— I have one on order.

-Dave

[bill pearce]

I wouldn't mind one or two. The cost only becomes overwhelming if you plan on adding it to every damn locomotive you own, which is foolish. And when you add sound, remember this: SOUND, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE ON YOUR LAYOUT, HAS SCALE!!! Too many time I've seen a layout with sound where you could hear every damn locomotive at every minute. When a train ia at another place form where you are, tens if not hundreds of scale miles away, would you hear that train as plain as  if it were right in front of you? Of course not! Turn the damn things down.

[Erik W]

All my locos are DCC and I have no interest in sound, for the reasons the other posters mentioned.  My opinion is the best fit for sound is with larger scales, O scale or bigger.  Either large indoor layouts or outdoors.  If you're running multiple trains on an N scale layout, or HO for that matter, it just gets annoying.  Also with the larger scales, the models have mass to justify the sound.

Erik

[kelticsylk]

To answer your question directly, I would purchase additional locomotives with DCC, but without sound.

My long winded answer is...

Like most things on the Allegheny Eastern the DCC system is second hand. I bought a "first" (and only) generation Atlas Commander. It's the same as the Lenz system from the period. Cannot recall the name of the Lenz product. Anyway...I purchased it because unlike many newer "starter" sets. it supports 99 locomotives as well as 99 accessories. Mind you, I will never run (or own) 99 engines, but I plan to run more than the 6 some of the cheaper systems support.

Having the capacity to support 99 or more devices means I can use sound, but only if I use a separate address for each sound decoder. I understand this is one method already being used by model railroaders, separate decoders for engine control and sound. I have toyed with the idea of sound, and made some provision for it BUT...

A - The additional cost of sound capable decoders is a rather expensive proposition. The roster of the All East currently includes over a dozen or more steam and diesel locomotives, with more to come. That's quite a few sound decoders. I do plan to install decoders in all locomotives (over time) but these would single or dual function decoders, probably purchased second hand.

B - I would think you would want all the locomotives to have sound, not just a few. Once committed to that path, sound would be as important to realism as working lights. I'm not sure what a layout would be like with all the locomotives making noise at the same time. Would it sound like a busy railroad? Would it just be noise?

C - The decoders capable of sound draw more power, which also adds to the operating expense. How many power zones would be required to support 25 sound equipped locomotives?

D - While I believe I can deal with the electrical part of a decoder install, the hard part is finding a place to put the thing. Thankfully steam engines have a tender which makes the job easier (unless it's a tank engine or Shay). Diesels on the other hand require some surgery as space needs to be stolen from the locomotive frame. Since N scale power needs as much weight as possible to get the job done, this affects the performance. Keep in mind this is true with just a single function decoder. Sound decoders, with their accompanying speakers, are a whole 'nother level of challenge. Since the All East road diesels are run in matched sets (typical of the period being modeled) one of the units in each set could be a "sound dummy", as it were, synthesizing the sound for the entire lashup. This dummy would have room for the decoder, speakers and anything else required. Since switchers and road switchers may not operate in sets, this presents the normal "where can I put this thing" problem. This is especially true in engines like the GE 44 Ton or EMD SW/NW units.

E - While I do think sound is fun to hear and watch at a hobby show or convention, I do not think it adds a lot to the realism of an operating model railroad.  For me it falls into the same category with smoke generators and three rail track. It reminds me of displays by Lionel and other manufacturers of toy trains. I especially dislike when the disembodied voice starts responding to the dispatcher or cries "All Aboard". Above any other considerations this is the actual reason I probably won't equip my motive power with sound.

FWIW

[Nato]

                I have bought some sound equipped locomotives either because they only came that way,or because I wanted one.The MRC sound in the Athearn Big UP steam is not very good,but the clever RC Remote to operate the sound on DC layouts (also done on early HO steam)  was interesting Tsunami retrofits sound better and the new re-releases will have Tsunami sound and no little RC remote.Sound modules made for specific models of diesels,or steam with Locomotive Specific sound like an Alco PA1 diesel or an SP AC Cab Forward ,even those available to retrofit to non sound engines ,are better than generic sound.Two things,at train shows in very noisey environments sound is a waste,hard to hear,and no one including myself will ever run a diesel or steam locomotive with the volume turned down to what the real level would be if you were a Preiser figure standing next to the track we would all hate that. Nate Goodman (Nato).       

[mr_mike_m]

Short answer - Yes!

Been in DCC for 13 years, and install decoders in most of my locos. I mostly stick to my chosen road and era, so i dont have 100+ engines. love having sound in my locos, and it is usually a big hit for the public when running on our ntrak layout.

Currently making up a NJ transit set of passenger cars, and the cab car has sound. Yeah, I like it that much, but to each their own!

[sundowner]

No,

[basementcalling]

I have no use for DCC sound equipped locos. N scale sounds chintzy, which takes away from the realism of a scene I worked hours to create and detail to be believable.

They are too expensive at this time as well.

I'll admit I like the bell sounds, but whistles and deep bass throbbing noises from diesels aren't realistic. Steam sounds better in N, and I think is more of an essential element of those locomotives.

Bells and whistle noises for switching and grade crossings could easily be done on a smart phone with a sound file, or through a stationary sound system I would think.

[C855B]

...
4. If the n-scale model railroad manufacturers all decided all new locomotives offered would be dual mode from the factory, would most current modelers want factory installed sound as an option at added cost?

Restated this way, I will opine that I do NOT want the manufacturers to force DCC upon us this way, sound or no sound. I would much prefer things as they are now, choosing a separate decoder with the technical features I prefer rather than paying twice for a decoder. I've had plenty of experience with Bachmann's "free" decoders and they are especially feature-bereft, so now I have yet another workbench roundtuit queue, Bachmanns needing decoders replaced.

Then there's BLI. You're now going to get sound whether you want it or not, and pay the sound premium. No thanks, guys.