Should for all n-scale locomotives come with DCC installed?

[rogergperkins]

RESTATING QUESTION AND BREAKING IT INTO TWO PARTS.
I did not add DCC until mid-2012 and then did so retaining dual mode function.  I model steam and am pleased with the Bachmann dual mode steam locomotives.
I also model B&O and added BLI B&O DCC with sound locomotives when I learned about them.
I had decoders added to three Kato GS-4 locomotives. 
 
PART 1: I am wondering why more manufacturers are not offering dual mode, and with or without sound as a standard option.
 
PART 2: 2ND question is: If a locomotive came dual mode and with either DCC sound or no sound which one would you purchase? 
Thanks

[pjm20]

I am beginning in DCC, so I have not had first hand experience with sound (other than my HO Proto 2-10-2), but I would buy the locomotive with sound if it was offered.

[John]

probably the added cost ..

[TiVoPrince]

Sound
is the premium level at the moment.  There will always be a premium option and someone to buy it.  Unfortunately the premium option always comes at a price, because that is where the leading edge lives... 

[Denver Road Doug]

I'm still on the fence.   To me, the quality up to this point has not been worth the cost.   Price is really not a barrier for me because I have relatively few locomotives, but I'm not gonna spend the money on tinny, incorrect sounds.  I have considered buying one or two though.

I liked the concept that SurroundTraxx put forth and I have built my last two layouts with the transponding infrastructure to support it. (while waiting for it to actually become reality)    When it did, I have to say I was disappointed in its features and the inability to customize/upgrade it.  But, it is the only way to have "layout room" or "show setup" sound and get the sufficient amount of bass to make the sounds become "legit" and worthwhile parts of the operations or display.  Still may buy one eventually, but now I'm considering other options.   

The latest idea that REALLY appeals to me for ops sessions is using "personal sound"...using smartphones or small tablets as throttles and attaching headphones that pipe in appropriate sounds.  Once "nearfield communication" becomes standard then you (as I understand it) can determine proximity to others and at that point you can bring in other trains or static layout elements (grade crossing, industry noises, etc.) into the fray.  Or I suppose you could achieve that with transponding as well, but it would be really nice to ditch that altogether.

I have to admit I'm a little curious about the lack of adoption of decoders as standard-issue. (AFAIK, all decoders are "dual mode" these days)  As long as the technology has been out, the cost should be minuscule by now.  (instead of almost doubling like Atlas' latest premium for decoder-equipped locos)  Bachmann, amazingly enough, has taken the lead in this.   But I do feel like there's an obvious premium involved, with many of the non-DCC guys feeling as if they're paying for something they're not using, and DCC guys thinking they can get a much better decoder for the price.  My take on it is...this happens all the time in other industries so it's just the price of innovation, but I'm obviously biased.   I was happy to not have to cram a decoder into the Bachmann 44-tonner, that's for sure.

[sizemore]

Now I am wondering why more manufacturers are not offer dual mode, and with or without sound as a standard option.

Almost if not all decoders in the past few years are dual mode decoders, dont understand why you're asking that question.... If I want to operate my DCC locomotive on a DC layout, I only have to change a CV in most cases often its set by default. If I want to run a DC locomotive on a DCC layout I use address 00 to operate it.

To answer the question demand does not equal the supply that manufacturers need, to make a profit. There is a lot of overhead associated with having a concurrent line of locomotives of DC, DCC and DCC w/ Sound variety in a single release. Not to mention that sound decoders cost significantly more to make, and then design those features into a single line of locomotives. The smaller the scale, craming smaller electronics into a smaller space - higher the cost, lower the demand.

If the larger scales are any indication, you either get DC or DCC with Sound. The trend has already started N scale starting with the Wallyworld 2-8-8-2, and Athearn Challenger/Big-Boy/FP45's. Add Bachmann releasing all of their "Spectrum" series with (dual-mode) DCC decoders one can only speculate if other manufacturers will adopt the practice as the costs to make DCC decoders and incorporate them into locomotives decreases.

The S.

[C855B]

No sound here, and I do speaker-ectomies on what I buy when there is no choice (Athearn big UP steam).

Sound is a novelty that becomes wearisome in a few minutes, and I still can't understand what it is other than greed that adds the ~$100 premium to sound encoders.

[MVW]

In response to your primary question: Yes, I want sound. Or I at least want the opportunity to have sound.

Is the forthcoming Atlas S-2 a sign of things to come? It's being offered in a DC model for $80, and a DCC/sound model for $160 (street). As a consumer, that's what I want to see.

Out of the 10-12 DCC locos I currently own, only the BLI E7 has sound ... and I like it. I would love to be able to affordably add sound to my two Bachmann steamers.

Jim

[JMaurer1]

Something I have learned about sound is that one or two locomotives with it sound good (if the locomotive is loud enough), but a layout full of sound locomotives quickly just becomes too much noise. IMHO, A few locomotives: yes. All locomotives: NO.

[babbo_enzo]

If you consider "JUST" the engine sound, I can agree at some percentage, but:
- program the sound level as audible at maximum in the 5' range ( also depending on backgruound noise level)
- without sound decoders you lose:
- proper (proto) whistle to caboose / crew your planned movements in yard
- Proto bell sound during switching
- warning at grade crossing .... etc....
- activate brake squeal in mountain routes
- Warn the helper at back on your train.
........
All this is fun and help to recreate correct operations.
Well, my 2 cents

[mike_lawyer]

Sound is not all that important to me.  I run DCC and do so primarily for locomotive control.

[VonRyan]

I haven't gotten into sound yet only because it is a bit cost prohibitive for me, but that will change one I pre-order an Atlas S-2.
I mostly prefer sound in switchers due to the more intimate operations that these engines get involved in.
I'd love it if someone came out with a sound decoder for the Kato NW2, mostly because of the engine's small size yet adequate strength.

-Cody F.

[bc6]

I would opt for no sound, I dont think sound in N scale has been optimized tell you the truth. The technology has not caught up with N scale. Of the 40 or so DCC locos I own only one has sound. Sound is way too expensive and I think its a novelty as mentioned before. When was the last time you seen a diesel loco offered with sound....exactly. Id rather has a JMRI setup with speakers etc than shelling out an extra $100 for sound. I must admit that I've only dabbled with MRC sound Id like to get a Digitrax sound decoder just for the heck of it just to try but I dont really feel like experimenting on my locos.

[Roger Holmes]

I have been running sound for ten years and feel something is missing when I run one of my engines without it.  I started with sound in boxcars (two wired together for extra pick-up) and baggage cars and still use those with some of my non-sound equipped locos.  Please don't judge N scale sound by early MRC which pales in comparison to Sountraxx, Loc Sound and Tsunami.  I agree with Enzo Babbo that using the whistle and bell to replicate real world operation adds to the experience for me.

Also, in my opinion, you need to approach sound on a scale basis.  That is, a five inch long N scale engine should not have the same volume, pitch and timbre as a 1:1 loco.  If the scalable sound concept doesn't grab you then you probably won't like anything that's currently available and will be happier without sound.  I have several friends that have a system that links 1:1 engine sounds to the layout throttle.  For my tastes I can't grasp a tiny engine running above an under layout speaker that makes my fillings rattle.  But they love it and I'm happy for them.

Finally, I think Roger (the original poster's) point regarding dual mode decoders related to locos only available with factory installed DCC with no DC only loco offered.  I know we've been down that road before with the non-DCC guys understandably not wanting the added expense of a feature they don't use.  Then there are some DCC purists who don't like the quality and limited features of the Bachmann built-in decoders.  So far I'm content with not having to install decoders in the B-mann 44 and 70 tonners but I am much happier with the quality of Atlas and Athearn decoder equipped locos where not making everyone buy decoder means better quality decoders for those of us who chose the factory equipped.

My 3 cents--adjusted for inflation


btw spelchek wanted me to change Athearn to "heathen"

[MVW]

I had forgotten about the pending release of the Atlas with sound option which is $120 USD more than without;
I do not find any other n-scale listed now that is DCC or dual mode and with or without sound; I thought that would
give me an estimate as to how much difference sound would add to retail cost.

As I noted above, Roger, the "premium" for DCC/sound is about $80 retail, at least for the S-2 at Brooklyn Locomotive Works.

Now, I'll agree with some posters that seems slightly spendy. I'd like to see the difference at about $60 or $65. But no one asked how much I wanted to pay for gasoline or food or liquor, either. 

And I'll also agree with the "scale sound" comments. The factory default for volume seems to be ridiculously high on sound decoders. It gets old in a hurry at those levels. Bump it down so it's only audible at five feet or so and you've got something.

Jim