BLMA Tropicana Reefer's

[Hyperion]

I'd imagine the cost of tooling up a 'proper' car isn't much different than tooling up an entirely new car.

And if you ask me, and honestly probably 95% of the market, 'close enough' is good enough; and if that same money can go to creating an all-new car or maybe someday some good modern N-scale signals (hint, hint) so much the better.

Even if I were a rivet-counter, there's an acknowledgeable difference between a manufacturer going through all the trouble to tool up a car just to do it wrong.  Or all the expense of making a paint scheme, only to do it wrong, especially when they were told it was wrong before they even printed a single car.  Versus taking an existing car and being upfront (or even not) about what you're doing.  No one's upset about Athearn's new Super Chief F59s.  If they went and made an F59 and the first thing they slapped on it was a Super Chief, or made some obvious error right off the bat, that's another thing entirely.

[Sokramiketes]

That said; the question is still valid..... others have made "foob's" and been killed because we don't like them.... Let's be honest here A@@hats..... There is a a select group of members here that have taken being self anointed "proto cops" to a new level... nothing wrong with that if it's not done with acidity; but it often is done with an uber abundance of acidic commentary...... and thus their valid observations are lost in the noise....

I DON"T want to kill the thread so maybe we need a "Crew Lounge" thread on this very topic but hey; "we got a debate here Lucy"........

Fair question.  Mainly it's because BLMA tooled a good car, put the correct paint schemes on it *first*... and is now doing a foob with full disclosure.  That gets a pass from me.

The "self anointed proto cops" usually point out things that could have been tooled/painted correctly (doing it right when it shouldn't cost more money) or that the prototype schemes should be released in an appropriate timeframe from initial release. 

It's not really a debate if you understand the subtleties of the paradigm.  The "proto cops" arn't just angry ranters. 

[Puddington]

Fair question.  Mainly it's because BLMA tooled a good car, put the correct paint schemes on it *first*... and is now doing a foob with full disclosure.  That gets a pass from me.

The "self anointed proto cops" usually point out things that could have been tooled/painted correctly (doing it right when it shouldn't cost more money) or that the prototype schemes should be released in an appropriate timeframe from initial release. 

It's not really a debate if you understand the subtleties of the paradigm.  The "proto cops" arn't just angry ranters.

Not going to aid in the locking of this thread but I don't agree with your take at all Mike; but we'll leave that for another thread.

[Smike]

Not going to aid in the locking of this thread but I don't agree with your take at all Mike; but we'll leave that for another thread.

Its all in how you set the expectations, and Craig set them right. 

Choice is good when its presented properly, I'm loving this addition, just like the V&O and AM stuff FVM put out a while back.

[packers#1]

  No one's upset about Athearn's new Super Chief F59s.  If they went and made an F59 and the first thing they slapped on it was a Super Chief, or made some obvious error right off the bat, that's another thing entirely.

that's right where my mind went to as well

[Kev1340]

Not going to aid in the locking of this thread but I don't agree with your take at all Mike; but we'll leave that for another thread.

+1

Cheers,

Kev

[JoeD]

I guess we should have gotten a pass on the GN scheme on the 60' car then?     This is a good case for why we fudge schemes on bodies that are as close as possible. He did a proto that only comes in two colors...white and white!  We can't do every body style out there, and there's a ton of pressure for specific Road Names.  Good for Craig.  I love the Scheme and the car and plan on buying a bunch.  The general public at train shows will love watching them go by, don't know or care about the accuracy, but know the Tropicana name...and that's what fuels our sales and our growth so we can keep the rivet counters heads from exploding.

Also, because Craig did the proto scheme first.

[jnevis]

CRAP, I thought I could dodge these

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=339857&nseq=8
UP running a half dozen through SoCal

[chicken45]

I heard the next release from the "TRW:GFY" line will be "the sausage train" consisting of nothing but Oscar Meyer Wienermobiles on 100T BLMA trucks.

[eja]

Since I'm the guy who kicked the hornet's nest ......

     ...... I must say I am pleased to see it started a very civil (and informative) discussion on the topic.

Well done Railwire folks!

eja

[JoeD]

Wait for it....wait for it....wait for it...   

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I guess we should have gotten a pass on the GN scheme on the 60' car then?     This is a good case for why we fudge schemes on bodies that are as close as possible. He did a proto that only comes in two colors...white and white!  We can't do every body style out there, and there's a ton of pressure for specific Road Names.  Good for Craig.  I love the Scheme and the car and plan on buying a bunch.  The general public at train shows will love watching them go by, don't know or care about the accuracy, but know the Tropicana name...and that's what fuels our sales and our growth so we can keep the rivet counters heads from exploding.

I guess I should've said "all the proto schemes first".

But then again, I really don't have any problem with what you guys do either. You know your market, and occasionally the stuff you do for them intersects with my interest (I just realized how many of your 60' auto parts cars I own... it's a lot more than I thought!), but then again, my barrier for purchase is gross errors (like an ACL bulkhead being passed off as a pulpwood car).

[Denver Road Doug]

OK, so Robbman either got paid to be silent, is in a coma, or is being held captive against his will.   His "universal truth" is that any bit of foob directly prevents a legit car from being produced.   I don't know the specifics of his interaction with BLMA, but I know there is some, and I feel like he surely protests this at some level...maybe we'll hear from him.   

My take on *this particular car, scheme, and the way it is being marketed* is that I love the idea.   But you have to take all of the variables into consideration.   I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but my dog could be in on the next (BNSF) one so I guess we'll see.  Just this weekend I worked on my own foobilicious version of this very car and had the TRW Devil sitting on my shoulder the whole time going "are you F$%&ing kidding me?".



And, I get the impression that someone, at some point, will do the BNSF version.   But I decided to do it just for the hell of it anyway.  (and I cheated, using the CEFX car and simply changing the reporting marks...didn't even change the number, etc....this thing is pure stand-in!)    I'm not sure how I would feel if there was a BNSF foob offered...I know I would love to see it done "right" so maybe I'm a hypocrite for liking the Tropicana foobies.   That's why I said "consider all the variables"....even your own personal views.   It is a fairly large double-digit percentage of cars I own that I consider foobs but that have decent paint jobs and will stand-in, probably forever, for other cars.   So I'm not so naive or in denial as some to think that I'm wrecking the model railroad industry by owning those cars.

No one's upset about Athearn's new Super Chief F59s.  If they went and made an F59 and the first thing they slapped on it was a Super Chief, or made some obvious error right off the bat, that's another thing entirely.

Actually, for the new mech/DCC-ready release of this locomotive, for which the old shells are NOT interchangeable without modification, there are a LOT of prototype schemes left on the table before the fantasy schemes were brought out.   To me this is insult to injury for those of us who bought Athearn's FIRST locomotive release thinking it would be quality when in reality it was mechanically on par with as many late 70's Yugoslavian pieces of crap.

Anyway, it does seem to me that there's some serious leeway being thrown about here, but I'll look the other way...   

[chicken45]

But again, it's completely arbitrary as to what foobs we deem acceptable.

[Ian MacMillan]

And we already had our hissy fit about the F59 WTF schemes a few months ago, it was about 2-3 pages worth when Athearn released their catalog. Its so bad, we're over it.