Author Topic: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?  (Read 5819 times)

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daniel_leavitt2000

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Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« on: February 06, 2011, 12:18:15 AM »
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I was weathering a few cars today and I noticed the Trainman 50 box and FVM boxes appear to share the same underframe. The only difference is method of jointing the metal weight and the words "Atlas" stamped on the Trainman car.

Just curious, I know Atlas does most of their own design work and I thought FVM does too. Do the manufacturers in China also provide template parts that manufacturers can borrow or rent? I would understand it if IM had the same underframe because they already share parts with Atlas. But FVM? Wierd.
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Brakie

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 07:06:07 AM »
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For some reason that doesn't surprise me..I have notice a lot of similarities between brands.

In fact...

Anybody besides me notice under normal operation viewing all brands look alike?
Larry

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lashedup

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 08:42:18 AM »
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This might be an obvious question, but if you are talking about similar prototype cars, wouldn't they logically have the same underframe details?

Mark5

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 09:11:03 AM »
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In fact...

Anybody besides me notice under normal operation viewing all brands look alike?

I guess this is one of those "eye of the beholder" things cuz it aint that way for me.

Brakie

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 09:42:16 AM »
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I guess this is one of those "eye of the beholder" things cuz it aint that way for me.

Dumb question time.. :-[  ;D

How can you tell?  ???

My Atlas cars looks like my FVM,ER,IM and Athearn cars..Some of my older Roundhouse cars looks like MTs and some of my MTs looks like Atlas Trainman..

So we'll be on the same page I'm talking about "modern" 50' boxcars.

I can see the differences in the 40' boxcar.
Larry

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lock4244

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 10:02:55 AM »
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The Bloo-mah an ER 4000cuft covered hoppers look identical, at least until you flip them over... obvious difference on the underside and I'm not talking about the body mounts on the Bloo-mah's.
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Puddington

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 10:17:13 AM »
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I think it's fair to say that in a 40 car consist moving at scale 45 mph on an n scale pike, from standard viewing distance, the fine detail differences between cars is somewhat lost. On the other hand cars sitting still in a yard or on a shelf and being "looked" at the differences are obvious and errors become glaring.

Personally they look better moving.......and all railways would agree with that !  ;D
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Brakie

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 10:45:53 AM »
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I think it's fair to say that in a 40 car consist moving at scale 45 mph on an n scale pike, from standard viewing distance, the fine detail differences between cars is somewhat lost. On the other hand cars sitting still in a yard or on a shelf and being "looked" at the differences are obvious and errors become glaring.

Personally they look better moving.......and all railways would agree with that !  ;D

Pud,I'm not to sure since I have eyeballed these cars both ways and still don't see much of a difference.

If the "detail" is some extra stickers or the  see-through end crossover walkway
I can see the difference but,the side view looks the same.
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SkipGear

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 11:19:24 AM »
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Pud,I'm not to sure since I have eyeballed these cars both ways and still don't see much of a difference.

If the "detail" is some extra stickers or the  see-through end crossover walkway
I can see the difference but,the side view looks the same.

It's a situation of, "Ignorance is bliss". If you don't know the differences in the first place, you won't be able to spot them.

As an example, the recent B&O Wagontop topic taught me something. I knew there was a difference between the M-15 Wagontop and the M-53 but I couldn't tell you what it was. Turns out the M-15 has one more rib. For most, it would never be noticed and if you didn't know to look for it you probably couldn't tell the difference in the cars. Now that I know it, the extra rib is a big spotting difference. The same could be said about many of the modern boxcars. It comes down to a rib placement, a brace here, a step in the sill there, etc that makes the difference. It may be small but it is a different model because of it.
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Brakie

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 11:49:40 AM »
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I know there are AFC,Evans,SEICO,PS etc and some variations in the type of doors used on different cars,cubic feet,number of ribs etc but,that's not the point  I'm trying to make.


Here's my point..Some of those brands could have came out of the same mold.
Larry

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asarge

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 11:49:50 AM »
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Quote
I think it's fair to say that in a 40 car consist moving at scale 45 mph on an n scale pike, from standard viewing distance, the fine detail differences between cars is somewhat lost. On the other hand cars sitting still in a yard or on a shelf and being "looked" at the differences are obvious and errors become glaring.

Personally they look better moving.......and all railways would agree with that !

Bingo!

It's possible the same factory may be producing both companies cars. Like Lashedup said, similar cars probably have similar equipment underneath. It doesn't take away from the aesthetics or desirability of the car so no big deal. Now if Daniel were to say he noticed it on his layout. One might draw the conclusion he has bad trackwork or unsteady benchwork.  ;D

SkipGear

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 01:21:48 PM »
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Here's my point..Some of those brands could have came out of the same mold.

There has been mold sharing in the past, this is known, but with more recent offerings, I think it is much less likely. Pick two cars that you think are the same and look a little more closely at them.

If two companies are modeling similar cars, that use a common frame type, no matter who does it, they should look the same if they are faithful representations of the prototype. It could be as simple as:

Company A to Manufacturer - "I want to build this box car. Company B makes a similar car that uses the same underframe so you can use that as a reference."

Manufacture - "We make that car for Company B also so we will use the data gathered to make one for your car, saving us time."

If the body mounts to the frame differently, then it is a different mold. They may have used the previous as a reference but they are not going to modify an existing mold which renders it useless for it's original purpose.
Tony Hines

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 02:02:52 PM »
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If the "detail" is some extra stickers or the  see-through end crossover walkway
I can see the difference but,the side view looks the same.

So, you can't see the difference but you can?   ???   I think that even from the side most higher end cars have features that easily differentiate them.

Keep in mind, vision makes a huge difference here.  Also, photography.   When we go back to "ringing the n-scale promotional bell" dismissing the better detail is maybe another prime reason that MR won't pull the trigger on an n-scale layout.   Just a thought.
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Brakie

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 04:45:06 PM »
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So, you can't see the difference but you can?   ???   I think that even from the side most higher end cars have features that easily differentiate them.



DRD,Let me break that down..I can see the difference between the short plastic "walkover" and the metal walkover at the end of the cars.
Savvy?

Now under normal layout viewing which is normally from the side I can't tell one brand from the other.

Savvy?
Larry

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Ian MacMillan

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Re: Trainman and FVM, whats the connection?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 04:46:41 PM »
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Holy crap....I just noticed all my cars appear to be 1/160 scale!  ;D
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