Author Topic: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history  (Read 8145 times)

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sirenwerks

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Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« on: October 17, 2010, 07:20:00 PM »
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If I remember correctly, the first PD covered hoppers were built in the late 1960s. Can anyone confirm of deny this? Actually, let me be more specific... can anyone confirm or deny this with a) knowledge of fact (rather than the conjecture I set myself up for with the 1st question) and, hopefully, b) photos?

I have 2 Wally PDs I'd like to back date.
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bbussey

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 08:47:39 PM »
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The ACF 3500pd covered hoppers (Flexi Flos) were built in 1964.  I believe these technically were the first PD hoppers.  The prototype that the Walthers car is based on is a 1970s prototype I think.
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sirenwerks

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 10:34:25 PM »
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The ACF 3500pd covered hoppers (Flexi Flos) were built in 1964.  I believe these technically were the first PD hoppers.  The prototype that the Walthers car is based on is a 1970s prototype I think.


The 3500 are the NYC cars you sell, correct? I am sure I've seen that a car of the same design as the Wally car but shorter, of lesser capacity was built post 1970.
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sirenwerks

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 10:35:31 PM »
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AHA! I found it! From 1969, though not as much like the Wally car as I remembered (selective memory...) - http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=nahx94001&o=northamerican
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bbussey

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 04:01:39 AM »
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Yes, the North American cars followed the ACF cars a couple of years later.  Overland released brass models of the car in the photo as well as the shorter version.  The Walthers model is a later design.

The car you found the photo of and it's shorter sibling are a big gap in N scale, for certain.
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 09:21:11 AM »
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Bryan, interested in making these? I could use a ton of Wonderbread cars. They were everywhere here in New England staples for decades.
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cv_acr

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 09:51:31 AM »
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Yes, the North American cars followed the ACF cars a couple of years later.  Overland released brass models of the car in the photo as well as the shorter version.  The Walthers model is a later design.

The car you found the photo of and it's shorter sibling are a big gap in N scale, for certain.


Not just N scale...

sirenwerks

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 11:47:03 AM »
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Bryan, interested in making these? I could use a ton of Wonderbread cars. They were everywhere here in New England staples for decades.

I thought the Wonderbread cars were more like the Wally model? In fact, I thought they did their car in a Wonderbread paint job? You gotta pic of one. I'm tempted to build one and maybe cast the larger components to make dupes. I really like the NAHX scheme.

I can tell it's not only shorter but not quite as tall as the Wally model. I could probably butcher a Wally car for some components, like the conical chutes, though they seem much closer together on the NAHX car. I need to find some drawings of the car or of something closer to it, and find some more photos to figure it all out, maybe get some basic measurements. The Sands picture leaves me a bit baffled - I can see on the left side edge of the bin body there's a beveled plane, but I don't see the same contour on the right side. It could just be the photo angle though. It would stand to reason both sides had the same contouring. That feature makes it more complicated, for sure. Without it, it's basically a tube cut at some funny angles.

I vaguely remember an article, I think it was in Mainline Modeler or Model Railroading, on these or a similar line of smaller capacity cars. Damn Kalmbach for shutting down the back issue database. Anyone with a better memory than me or the actual article on hand?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 11:54:50 AM by sirenwerks »
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 08:18:20 PM »
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As long as the Wally model sucks, and no one (Bob, I'm looking at you) makes upgrade parts, I think the PD5000 is still the best prototype to make. There were dozens of very interesting paint schemes on that car. The smaller 3 bay PD3000 would also be interesting to see, but it was no where near as popular.

I really think we need to start looking at covered hoppers that ARE NOT from ACF. Trinity, Thrall, North American... where is the love?
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bbussey

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 08:29:29 PM »
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Bryan, interested in making these? I could use a ton of Wonderbread cars. They were everywhere here in New England staples for decades.

I would love to actually, although I'm the opposite of you in that I personally like the PD3000 slightly better than the PD5000.  But I've got a ton on my plate already.  Maybe when my schedule clears with the cars I've already got lined up, if someone hasn't done them yet.  But I agree, the NAHX cars are loooooooooong overdue.
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sirenwerks

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 08:34:06 PM »
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LOL! Daniel, I thought you were asking me if I wanted to make the car. And how vane of me to answer. I'd forgotten there are other Bryans on this list, and they spell their name correctly.
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bbussey

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 10:30:16 PM »
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I thought the Wonderbread cars were more like the Wally model? In fact, I thought they did their car in a Wonderbread paint job? You gotta pic of one. I'm tempted to build one and maybe cast the larger components to make dupes. I really like the NAHX scheme.

I think there were Wonder Bread schemes on all three classes.  Walthers definitely did the Wonder Bread scheme 20+ years ago, I have it.  Item #932-8152.



Overland did the PD3000 and PD4000 back in the late 1980s as well.  I have three of these, but I too believe plastic models of this prototype would do well.



Pics of the NAHX PD3000 online in Wonder/Hostess are going to be tough to find though.
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2010, 10:57:37 PM »
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I had a contact at Interstate Brands who ran the Wonderbread factory in Natick, then moved to the factory in Maine after the plant shut down. Both used the PD cars. Having lived next to the Saxonville branch during my childhood, I never saw a three bay Wonderbread hopper. They used the PD5000 in Wonderbread/Hostess Cake, and the ACF PD car in PCIX that Atlas did years ago.

I'm not saying there were no PD3000 cars in Wonderbread, but I never seen them. Either way, If you make the PD3000, PLEASE make the PD5000 as well. I will buy anything you make, but I have a special fondness for the PD5000 car.

Speaking of hard to find paint schemes, anyone know of any books on modern private covered hoppers? Its seems to be a very large gap in the research out there.
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sirenwerks

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 11:06:52 PM »
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Rail Yard Models is making the 3K in HO, a plastic body with extensive metal etchings. It's a shame their one foray into N scale didn't go over so well.

I wonder if there's any chance they could be convinced to a) make the kit in N or b) provide the drawings and their vector graphics of the etchings to let someone else make it (wink, wink, nudge, nudge Bob).

BTW, I know, fat chance. My guess though is that drawings exist somewhere if RYM made it. The search is on...
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bbussey

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Re: Pressure Differential Covered Hopper history
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2010, 11:11:01 PM »
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I had a contact at Interstate Brands who ran the Wonderbread factory in Natick, then moved to the factory in Maine after the plant shut down. Both used the PD cars. Having lived next to the Saxonville branch during my childhood, I never saw a three bay Wonderbread hopper. They used the PD5000 in Wonderbread/Hostess Cake, and the ACF PD car in PCIX that Atlas did years ago.

I'm not saying there were no PD3000 cars in Wonderbread, but I never seen them. Either way, If you make the PD3000, PLEASE make the PD5000 as well. I will buy anything you make, but I have a special fondness for the PD5000 car.

Speaking of hard to find paint schemes, anyone know of any books on modern private covered hoppers? Its seems to be a very large gap in the research out there.

You could well be right that there were no PD3000s deorated in Wonder Bread.  So the old Walthers car is accurate?  Didn't Plano or GMM make an etched upgrade kit for that model?  Not to say that a meticulously detailed PD5000 wouldn't sell well, but I would think that the PD3000 which has never been done might have more potential.

ESM already is committed to three projects after the XIH, so I don't know if/when any PD hopper could be squeezed into the schedule in the relatively near future.  

And if I thought there was a market for them, I would seriously consider an updated version of the ACF 3500pd Flexi Flo also.  But I don't think a strong enough demand is there to consider it.

Rail Yard Models is making the 3K in HO, a plastic body with extensive metal etchings. It's a shame their one foray into N scale didn't go over so well.

I wonder if there's any chance they could be convinced to a) make the kit in N or b) provide the drawings and their vector graphics of the etchings to let someone else make it (wink, wink, nudge, nudge Bob).

BTW, I know, fat chance. My guess though is that drawings exist somewhere if RYM made it. The search is on...

Are they really?  It doesn't hurt to ask them if they would consider an N scale kit - or if they would be willing to disclose their sources of the mechanical drawings.
Bryan Busséy
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