PRR/Conrail Juniata Division Engineering Report

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The NCR FTW! There's a reason I'm doing it.

The stretch between enola and COLA would be awesome.

[sirenwerks]

Dave,

Part of my professional life was spent moving exhibitions for museums. Since exhibitions moved from one museum to another, there was a heavy component of modularity built into the process to save money museums didn't have, so I am well aware of how design works in process. I would recommend one thing that has nothing to do with your line choices or ops. Since you are going to be moving such a layout at some point, or its components, make sure that the actual moving of the parts is completely thought through.

Whether it's a crate structure or some other form of 'how layout parts get from place A to place B', make sure you go through the fire drill in your head and have what you need to make the move planned and built now, rather than having to do it later. Waiting means the layout ends up in competition with worrying about moving the rest of your life, and the layout ends up on the back burner and using the last of the resources (ie, closer to the trash pile than you want to admit). I'm not talking about building to bullet-proof standards like Kalmbach's Clinchfield, since your layout won't be moving as often, just readying for the eventual.

BTW, Harrisburg to York, great choice.

[davefoxx]

Dr. V.,

I have to admit that I just finished watching two CR DVDs that I recently purchased: the Port Road Branch and the Middle Division DVDs.  In the Port Road DVD, I felt teased looking for more information on the York Haven/NCRR when they showed the connection and explained mile markers.  It sounds, preliminarily anyway, that the York Haven/NCRR incorporates many elements of modeling and operations that you seek.  I think your idea is a great one and look forward to more of your thoughts and plans.

Dave Foxx

[Dave V]

Bryan,

Way ahead of ya...  The Juniata Division has already moved, as has its predecessors.  Here it is leaving our North Carolina home in July 2008:

[Bob Bufkin]

I got PRR Facilities In Color Vol 6: Harrisburg Div, Freight Lines for Xmas.  If you haven't seen this one yet, Dave, it's worth looking at.  Some real good photos of facilities from steam to Conrail.

[Dave V]

I'm thinking Cly would make a great scene.  Here it is during early Conrail:




One of my "Trackside on the PRR" shows that the station and tower looked just as run-down in the 1950s, so it's perfect for dual era!

I'm thinking a kitbash of the Atlas Maywood station would work.

[Dave V]

Oh, and how could I NOT model this awesome circa-1863 mill (York Flour Mills) in Emigsville?  It's been expanded and is still very much in use today!  Some brick mill kitbashing and a Walther's modern grain elevator and blammo!

[asciibaron]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout.  you guys make plenty of fun for my waffling, but Dr. Weather has found the folly of his direction.  i have been there and built those layouts.  i picked the L&HR for a very good reason - it's doable in both terms of traffic and capturing the feel of the line.

hee are some lines that would be good PRR lines that could be fun:

Harrisburg to York
Sunbury to Wilkes-Barre
Renovo to Emporium
Harrisburg to Hagerstown

A York Haven layout would be good, but without staging, it really won't work beyond 2 or 3 trains.

[Dave V]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout. 

I would NOT agree.

[asciibaron]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout. 

I would NOT agree.

after you've built 6 or 7 layouts that you are not happy with get back to me on that

[davefoxx]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout.  you guys make plenty of fun for my waffling, but Dr. Weather has found the folly of his direction.  i have been there and built those layouts.

I don't agree either.  I enjoy building and running, neither of which can be done without a layout.  Sheesh, do you think my 2' x 3' layout is my dream layout?  Heck no, but it's all I can do right now, but I am enjoying every minute of it.  I also know that Dave V. has gotten years of enjoyment out of his door layout.  Whatever the future is for it, I don't know.  He may rebuild it, or he may find it a new home.  Let's face it.  It isn't his dream layout, but many of us have enjoyed it and have learned something from it, too.  I'm real glad that he built it and shared it with us.

If you're concerned about building something and then finding it's not what you want, well, then you'll never have a layout and you still won't be happy.  I say build it, and if it's not what you desire, then fix it, change it, rebuild it, whatever.  Just enjoy it, for gosh sakes.  Now get off your duff and build the L&HR already.

Dave Foxx

[asciibaron]

I don't agree either.  I enjoy building and running, neither of which can be done without a layout.  Sheesh, do you think my 2' x 3' layout is my dream layout? 

i don't think you understand what i'm saying.  it's one thing to build layouts and learn how to do scenery and lay track and master the art of the hobby.  i'm talking about having a layout that is no longing providing that enjoyment and the simply looking at it makes you want to rip it out.  i have been there.  i re-built a layout 3 times when i was in high school.  i was never able to get what i wanted in terms of enjoyment - i had been tainted by the desire for realistic operations.

i guess i could amend my comment to this:

"if your current layout has stopped being fun, it's worse than not having a layout"

why?

rebuilding the entire thing means tossing a huge amount of yourself in the trash.  some people can not let it go so easily.

do that make sense?

[Dave V]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout.  

I would NOT agree.

after you've built 6 or 7 layouts that you are not happy with get back to me on that

The Juniata Division is layout number 4.  And quite frankly I enjoy building and starting over now and then.

And, I'm not saying I hate the Juniata Division as much as I'm saying it's almost reached the limits of what it can do for me.  But I would still MUCH rather have a place I can sit back and run my equipment than spend endless years and electrons hand-wringing over the perfect plan.  Simply put, a flawed layout is better than the one that never gets built.

[pfs]

having a layout you are unhappy with is worse than not having a layout. ...

I agree, I took down an incomplete 4x6 when i realized it would not be anywhere near what I wanted on multiple levels.



Dave...why the doors?  Why not use a more manageable size....4 x 18, 4 x 24 etc?


I am undecided on the width but am inspired by the mod-u-boi's (skibbie, lashedup etc) and the modular work of John Grant. (think drift pins)

I will have to move it and I would like to put it in a few train shows when I am done.


Doors just seem bulky and expensive to me (opinion).

[Dave V]

PFS,

The existing doors came about because of my nomadic lifestyle...  They're large enough to be a self-conatined layout yet small enough to move very easily.  They're sturdy, too.

In terms of a fully modular future layout, I'm not dead-set on the doors.  I will say, though, that the smaller each module is, the more layout joints (track AND scenery) there are, and therefore more chances for problems after each move.  A single 18" wide bi-fold door is 6' 8" long, which means fewer track joints.  The little 3 or 4 foot long modules are too small in my opinion.

The direction I go with this has much to do with whether my last assignment is on the East Coast or farther away, because the closer I am to where I want to retire, the more elaborate I can make my layout since I have a better opportunity to move it myself gradually versus one great-big government contract moving day.

Of course my dream layout would be an around-the-walls shelf layout, but obviously I will not know in advance how much wall I will eventually have to work with.  Modular is the next best thing.

The reason I go through these long-term planning exercises is simply to focus my long-term buying and building plan.  For example, if I'm not going to try to build the Middle Division long-term, then scratchbuilding the Lewistown station would be a waste of time and resources.