PRR/Conrail Juniata Division Engineering Report

[wm3798]

I follow this protocol...
Room Shape
Benchwork plan (to establish available space)
Rough route plan
Addition of critical LDE's
Refined route plan
Start construction
finalized track plan...based on actual physical plant restraints

Review and revise based on operational experience.

Buy beer, run trains.

[Philip H]

I follow this protocol...
Room Shape
Benchwork plan (to establish available space)
Rough route plan
Addition of critical LDE's
Refined route plan
Start construction
finalized track plan...based on actual physical plant restraints

Review and revise based on operational experience.

Buy beer, run trains.

This has been my general philosophy as well, but I tend to add the Buy Beer step in several places. like this:

Room Shape
Benchwork plan (to establish available space)
buy beer
Rough route plan
Addition of critical LDE's
buy beer
Refined route plan
buy beer
Start construction
finalized track plan...based on actual physical plant restraints

invite friends over, buy beer

[wm3798]

You're right Phil...  That's what I do, I assumed that everyone would understand that though!

[asciibaron]

i have built about 14 layouts over the years - i know exactly what i want.

Sorry, this is a contradictory statement.

of course, i've learned nothing from those 14 previous layouts.  nope, not a thing.

[asciibaron]

I follow this protocol...
Room Shape
Benchwork plan (to establish available space)
Rough route plan
Addition of critical LDE's
Refined route plan
Start construction
finalized track plan...based on actual physical plant restraints

your benchwork should be designed around supporting your track plan.  you don't pour a foundation and then design a house around it, do you? 

[Dave V]

"Hi, guys, remember me?  I was the original topic of this thread.  I'm the Harrisburg-York line. ;D"

I'm home on "quarters" today because I threw my back out (again) shoveling over the weekend (herniated my L5 back in 2003).  So I have lots of time for pain-killer induced thought regarding this layout.

More thoughts:

1.  The giant Brunner's Island PP&L coal-fired power plant got 3+ million tons of coal in unit trains.  The spur left the York Haven line just a short distance above Wago Junction, so would connect along the line I would model.  However, 100-car unit coal trains are probably not appropriate for something less than the scale of Todd Treaster's layout...  so might not make the final cut.

2.  The bridge over Codorus Creek between York and Emigsville is a natural scene to model:



...although Bing Maps shows concrete piers have replaced the stone.

3.  The station at Mount Wolf, PA could also be approximated with a kitbashed Atlas Maywood station:




There was a sizable factory with rail service right there by the station.  I have yet to figure out what it was.

4.  Would like to know...  When was this line single-tracked?  It's tempting to leave it all double-tracked so when I get in the roundy-round mood I can run two trains at once.  However, I understand that single-track operation is more challenging.

5.  I'm seeing, via Bing Maps, lots and lots of covered-hopper industries.  Score!  Covered hoppers are quickly becoming my favorite Conrail-era car type.  

6.  I may have to freelance a scrap metal operation if I can't find one.  I'm also loving all the great gondola choices we have, and I have a bunch in both my eras.

With respect to some of Steve's more valid comments, the coal mine example is a good one.  This line obviously did NOT have a coal mine.  However, there where enough other industries along this line that I can use parts of my two versions of the New River Mine (one I built full-size, and the current one is half-size) for a number of things, including parts of Brunner's Island if it makes the cut, or for some of the other bulk loading facilities.  But I have no intention of forcing coal mining into this plan just for an excuse to use a tipple.  Hoppers will be through-service only.

[sizemore]

Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves.... Proper planning prevents poor performance.

heck, the prototype has operational problems that it has to sort out and sometimes that means reconfiguring an interlocking or reducing a grade, or reversing a crossover.

So then technically you really only had one layout with 14 revisions ;D. Go cut some wood man and stop bike riding!

The S.
 

[davefoxx]

well, when i'm constantly the punchline regarding my lack of a layout, the distinct needs to be explained.

Steve, you are the butt of many jokes, because you state that you are going to do this or that (often coming off in an arrogant manner) and then fail to do so.  For example, last week, you started a thread on the L&HR version 2.0 only to state that it's too cold to work on the layout.  What do you expect from us?  Another case in point, last year's benchwork building session at Lee's, where a bunch of guys came together to help get you started.  But other than hanging those sections in your layout space, nothing else has occurred.  Then you talked Brian Carhart into helping you get plywood home.  Again, nothing since, despite the track plan that was created for you by fellow TRW members.  Procrastination or delay would not normally bother folks, but then you complain about not having a layout because it's too cold to cut plywood.  Meanwhile, you're out hiking the Appalachian Trail or biking in the cold.  WTF?

i have built about 14 layouts over the years - i know exactly what i want. 

For God's sake, then just build it, man!

i think Dave [Vollmer] is starting to see what he really wants from a layout and why his current layout is missing that mark.  having that understanding is helpful, but also removes a bit of the "innocence" of model trains.  knowing what you want can become a burden.

Dave Vollmer will be the first to tell you that the Middle Division layout was essentially a stand-in layout until he has a permanent assignment or resigns from the Air Force.  He had to build something portable and, since he never knew what space he would have at the next assignment, he limited himself to a door layout.  He is not, in fact, just realizing that the door layout "is missing the mark," but instead has learned from it and the Enola Yard extension to help him design elements of his future layout.  Again that proves that something is better than nothing, and, as David K. Smith stated, "vaporware layouts are not good learning tools."

DFF

[davefoxx]

2.  The bridge over Codorus Creek between York and Emigsville is a natural scene to model:



...although Bing Maps shows concrete piers have replaced the stone.

Dave,

Sorry to hear about your back.  Take care of it and feel better soon.

By the way, I love this bridge.  A deck plate girder structure on a slightly superelevated curve.  You're right, you have to model that.

DFF

[asciibaron]

So then technically you really only had one layout with 14 revisions ;D. Go cut some wood man and stop bike riding!

i fear the cold has frozen your gray matter

[sizemore]

"Hi, guys, remember me?  I was the original topic of this thread.  I'm the Harrisburg-York line. ;D"

Harrisburg to York is not included in the NCR correct? This was the information I found on the NCR about single versus doubletrack from Wikipedia:

With the decline in rail passenger and freight service in the 1950s, accelerated by completion of the Baltimore-Harrisburg Expressway (I-83), the "Parkton locals" were dropped in 1959 and the line was reduced from double-track to single-track. Some long-distance trains, such as the General to Chicago and the Buffalo Day Express, continued to operate until the late 1960s. In 1972, when Hurricane Agnes caused bridge damage and washouts along the line, it ceased operations completely. One of the oldest rail lines in the country, it had run for a total of 134 years.

If not included in the NCR the date would still suggest a reference in time for the question of when it was double vs. single tracked assuming the lines traffic was substantial coming from Baltimore. Also may have implications with the advent of declining traffic and Conrails use, but my knowledge of CR is cloudy. Just trying to help!

The S.

[sizemore]

So then technically you really only had one layout with 14 revisions ;D. Go cut some wood man and stop bike riding!

i fear the cold has frozen your gray matter

I just were heavy wool socks, a heavy jacket, and stopped being a wuss!  ;D

The S.

[Dave V]

Dave Foxx is on the mark.

I always knew the Middle/Juniata Division would come up short in a lot of ways mainly due to size.  Where I will agree with Steve is that I've discovered additional operating shortfalls since construction.  But this doesn't make the layout worthless.  There's a lot about it that worked, and worked well.  Hence I know what to do next time, particularly from the construction and scenery perspectives.

I detect a bit of Schadenfreude in your posts, Steve...  Maybe not so much pleasure in the dissatisfaction of others, but I do believe you're seeking validation for your own indecision/inaction.  To the extent you can help me come up with a viable strategy to model this segment of PRR/CR with an eye toward operations, it will be greatly appreciated.  But I'm not playing the "validate Steve's model railroading insecurities" game in this particular thread.

"It ain't about YOU!" ;D

[Dave V]

"Hi, guys, remember me?  I was the original topic of this thread.  I'm the Harrisburg-York line. ;D"

Harrisburg to York is not included in the NCR correct? This was the information I found on the NCR about single versus doubletrack from Wikipedia:

The S.

S...  Technically, the original NCRR ran from Baltimore all the way up to Sunbury.  Later mergers extended it even farther north.  The line from York to Harrisburg was most definitely a part, as evidenced by the NCR standard depot architecture at Cly and Mt Wolf.

Now, a little clarification is in order.  Indeed, the track south of York was single-tracked in 1959.  I'd found some very nice track diagrams explaining the same.  I've not yet found the same info for the track north of York.  The line was out of service between New Freedom and Cockeysville after Agnes in 1972, but north of York was and is still to this day intact and in use.  

HOWEVER, my intent with this would be to do what Ed K is doing and pretend Agnes did NOT destroy the NCRR south of York.  This would give me continued TOFC, coal, and passenger service in both eras (assuming Amtrak's DC connection to the Broadway Limited would use this line instead of the Port Road as it did in the early Amtrak years).  This also allows Ed and I to use the same CR freight symbols and timetables.

Just a few more thoughts.  Man, I hate that I have to wait another 6 hours before I can get in to my chiropractor...  Grumble/pain.

[seusscaboose]

True enough...  In fact, what is now the Mid State Farm Supply started as a small kitbashed Walthers feedmill from my previous layout.  It was too tiny for rail service.  However, I felt compelled to use it again.  It never looked worthy of rail service until I expanded it to include the farm store.

I visited a layout this weekend and observed many structures with zero rail service to them.  Personally, i have always been limited to the old "if it is a building on the layout it must be near a track" misnomer. It may sound uber-simplistic, but having buildings non-train related (houses, churches, villages) seems to be my next design element.

We all progress at our own pace... as long as you are doing it, you might as well have fun.

EP