Which 3d printer to buy

[cnw780]

I've been seeing all the fun stuff people are making with their 3D printers and I am getting tempted to buy one (my 10 year old son is also encouraging me).

We are getting to the time of year when I am sure there will be good deals on these things so I want to decide if I should get one, but I wanted some advice on what models are good, resin vs filament, and what other things I need to consider before I plunk down several hundred dollars on one of these.

I had designed a few things in SketchUp and did get some models printed via shapeways before they went down so I have some experience with this hobby, I just don't want the shiny new toy to become a large unused thing cluttering up my basement.  I am modeling N scale with an S scale side project.

Thanks all
Tim

[Sumner]

....and what kind of projects do you see yourself printing.....buildings, detailed items, RR cars, etc..   Build size you are after.  What is your budget for all that you will need with one or the other?

Sumner

[cnw780]

....and what kind of projects do you see yourself printing.....buildings, detailed items, RR cars, etc..   Build size you are after.  What is your budget for all that you will need with one or the other?

Sumner

As far as projects, probably all of the above.  I would probably just start with detail items and other upgrades for my freight cars.  Small buildings would be nice too.  I know the bigger the build area the more I can do with it but the price goes up.  Budget I would like to stay under $500.

[Sumner]

With $500 I'd go with resin if......you have a place to put it and a wash-n-cure where the smell isn't an issue.  There are printers in the $250 range that have a build plate that is 7+ inches long and about 5 inches wide.  I'd look for one with a build plate at least 6.5 inches long.  Personally I believe about any now available will be fine on print resolution unless you want to look at items 6 inches away with magnification.



The N scale saw sharpening station above was printed on a $200 AnyCubic I purchased a couple years ago.  You can't even see the saw blade teeth from normal viewing distances but they are there.

If I didn't have a wash-n-cure I wouldn't be printing with resin myself.  With it my close proximity to the resin and cleaning fluid (I use denatured alcohol) for the whole print and clean cycles is about a minute total.  I bought a second cleaning tub for the wash-n-cure for about $25 and save a lot of cleaning fluid by being able to do two separate cleaning cycles.  It keeps the second one clean for a long time (a year in my case and I print quite a bit).  I wash in the first 3-4 minutes and the second 3-4 minutes and then cure and don't have to handle the prints during any of that.

I see printers I'd consider if I was looking now for about $250...wash-n-cure $100-$130... cleaning fluid $50 .... misc supplies $50.

My printing station....



https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/3D-Printer-2/page-66.html

If the smell is a problem I'd look for a higher end filament printer that prints with more detail than basic ones (still won't be the detail of a resin printer though).  Saying that I have printed a lot of nice n scale buildings and other items with my 2 older Ender 3 Pro printers.  Take a bit of time to learn how to level the bed (takes a couple minutes) at $200 you can put out some nice prints.  Some of the $400-$500 printers will of course do better and quicker.  With filament you basically only need the printer and some good filament $25 a spool.  No real smell or cleanup.

They both have their advantages and disadvantages....I have both and use both.

Sumner

[basementcalling]

I'm still waiting for a 3D printer how to or review article to hit in the model railroad press. I know the details of individual printers change rapidly, but I'm surprised given its usefullness to the hobby that someone hasn't put together a basic primer style how to get started article on the subject.

[Lemosteam]

Bear in mind that Resin 3D printing becomes  three hobbies within the MRR hobby, both with a learning curve:

Learning some type of CAD

Learning how to add print supports

Printing and cleaning and all of the parts and printer maintenance, print fail frustration, smells, etc.

None of what I said is to discourage you- all just a heads up for what you are really getting into.

Best of luck.

If you can find one, buy a DLP printer.  Since I bought mine, I have had very few print failures, as opposed to my LCD printer, which drove me insane to the point of giving it away!

[John]

https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-resin-3d-printers

Decent summary of whats available

[peteski]

I'm still waiting for a 3D printer how to or review article to hit in the model railroad press. I know the details of individual printers change rapidly, but I'm surprised given its usefullness to the hobby that someone hasn't put together a basic primer style how to get started article on the subject.

I wouldn't expect model railroad publications to publish this type of article (ither than very pasic info skimming the 3D printing technology). While the items printed are very useful for model railroaders (and many other hobbies), like Lemosteam stated, the 3D printing is a complete and separate hobby in itself.

[Scottl]

Start simple and don't over think it.  I have an entry level resin printer that is easy to use and very useful.  The cost of resin and consumables is pretty small but you need a space to do it where some fumes are not a concern.  Needs reasonable climate control too.  Not freezing, fairly stable temperatures.

[Sumner]

Start simple and don't over think it. 

Agreed.  I setup the printer via the instructions and use the free Chitubox download for the slicer. Then downloaded Siraya Tech's settings for Chitubox and the Photon M3. I use those settings in Chitubox as the default settings. Download the print file into Chitubox. Rotate it and move it where I want it on the build plate. Use Chitubox to automatically put in the supports. Save the file and take it to the printer and print. Not very hard at all and...



… the results can be like above the first time. I would do that Ameralabs Town print first just to see where you are. I've never changed a setting so far off the base settings I downloaded.  The saw sharpening station I posted earlier is with the same settings.  I added a few supports once I printed it the first time.  You will get the hang of doing that.

In most cases if you have settings from the printer and resin manufactures and start with those you will find you hardly ever have to mess with them, I don't and have hundreds of prints with them bone stock.

I use CAD for about all of my prints but there are thousands of items up that you only need to download the free print file and use it.  I have a couple hundred prints up myself that people download all the time.

The link I posted earlier ( HERE ) covers most of what you need for a printing station that is easy to use and how to use it.

Sumner

[cnw780]

If you can find one, buy a DLP printer.  Since I bought mine, I have had very few print failures, as opposed to my LCD printer, which drove me insane to the point of giving it away!

Yeah, Elegoo has a Mars 4 dlp I have been looking at:
https://us.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-mars-4-dlp-resin-3d-printer?_pos=1&_sid=2056dfade&_ss=r

Pretty cheap, and this model has an air filter so that should take care of some of the smell concerns.  I am only hesitant to buy it because of the small build area. That and I am afraid the are so cheap so they can clear them out for a better model that will come out in a few weeks.

~Tim

[robert3985]

I've been seeing all the fun stuff people are making with their 3D printers and I am getting tempted to buy one (my 10 year old son is also encouraging me).

We are getting to the time of year when I am sure there will be good deals on these things so I want to decide if I should get one, but I wanted some advice on what models are good, resin vs filament, and what other things I need to consider before I plunk down several hundred dollars on one of these.

I had designed a few things in SketchUp and did get some models printed via shapeways before they went down so I have some experience with this hobby, I just don't want the shiny new toy to become a large unused thing cluttering up my basement.  I am modeling N scale with an S scale side project.

Thanks all
Tim

Tim @cnw780 - I've got several 3D printers I use mainly commercially to print N-scale and G-scale stuff.  In the four years since I purchased my high-quality Anycubic 10" 8K printer and then purchased my 13.6" Anycubic Photon Mono M7 Max for the G-scale stuff, I've come to several conclusions about what a "good" printer is, and how some of the newer models (in the last two years) have simplified and de-mystified a lot of what 3D resin printing is about.

I'm not going to get into technicalities, but I am very happy with both of my Anycubic printers.  However, the older 10" 8K version isn't made any longer, so I can't recommend it.  On the other hand, my newest Anycubic Photon Mono M7 Max isn't really suitable for N-scale details...but is just right for G-scale...maybe even down to S-scale projects. 

Since you are mainly modeling in N-scale, a finer resolution is called for, even though my 8K printer is perfect for my N-scale superdetail parts products with its 28micrometer pixel resolution.  But, it IS a basic model compared to many of today's printers with their convenience features and doesn't have several features that I really like on my current-production Anycubic Photon Mono M7 Max.

Part of the problem with resin 3D printing is figuring out the parameters for each type and brand of resin you might decide to use, each resin maybe having different printing properties. Because of the design of the vast majority of 3D resin printers, with the Z-axis build plate going up and down at different speeds during the printing process. The calibrations for both speed and distance are to ensure the newly printed layer separates from the film and that the film returns to zero before the next layer gets printed.  Since most 3D printers are designed so the build plate pulls directly up in relation to the film, these parameters are essential to get right, which is sometimes done through educated guesses, long-learned experience and just plain luck.

One manufacturer has taken this "problem" and solved it, thus cutting the amount of parameters to set for successful prints by half, and I am going to recommend the Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra 16K.

First, this machine has excellent reviews.  I also have recommended it to various others and they report the results are excellent.

Secondly, this machine has "Tilt-Release Technology" meaning the resin vat actually pivots while the build plate rises while printing each layer, which completely eliminates "normal" parameters for speed and distance to enable layer release from the film.  I wasn't sure about this new technology when it first came out, but...it has proven itself to be both precise, repeatable and durable.

Thirdly, the machine has excellent 16K resolution with a pixel size of 19 micrometers, which is more than adequate for any N-scale (or smaller scale) project with a 10" LCD (corner to corner) allowing for printing many parts at once, or fairly large N-scale objects.  Since I started printing my G-scale stuff on my 10" printer with excellent results, I'm guessing that for many larger S-scale projects, this Elegoo machine will also work well as far as build volume.

Fourthly, it's got a vat heater to bring your resin up to a consistent temperature, which is important for consistent, reliable results.

And, it has other excellent features, such as a tilting cover, built-in camera, wireless capability and many more.

I am in the market for another 10" printer, and this is the one I will purchase.

Additionally, I will definitely recommend a wash & cure station.  Things have changed since I bought mine several years ago, and the one that looks good to me is the Elegoo Mercury Plus V2.0 and is presently being offered as a bundle by Elegoo.  If you want to afford it, I would also purchase an extra resin vat, an extra build plate, and an extra LCD screen for the printer, and an extra wash bucket for the Wash & Cure.

The extra stuff I recommend because I didn't do that when I purchased my 10" printer and I've had a difficult time finding them now that the printer is no longer being produced.

All of this stuff is now on sale at Elegoo, and now would be an excellent time to purchase to save some significant cash.

As far as resin is concerned, I only print with Anycubic resins, which are fully compatible with Elegoo machines.  I am completely happy with Anycubic ABS-Like Resin Pro 2.  I use this for both my N-scale detail parts and my MUCH larger G-scale stuff, and I'm very happy with both the detail and durability of this resin.  I buy it in 10KG packs as it saves me a crap-load of money.

So, there's my long-winded recommendation...one I'll be following myself very soon.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[cnw780]

Thanks for that extensive write up Bob.
Do you really think the tilt release option on the Saturn justifies the price?  I am all for an easier process but the Saturn is over twice the price of another printer I was looking at.  Even with add-ons and the wash and cure station added in, it  is still cheaper.

Also do you have any advice on dealing with the safety and handling issues of the resin itself?  I have been looking at that issue and it is the major thing holding me back on a purchase right now.

Tim

[robert3985]

Thanks for that extensive write up Bob.
Do you really think the tilt release option on the Saturn justifies the price?  I am all for an easier process but the Saturn is over twice the price of another printer I was looking at.  Even with add-ons and the wash and cure station added in, it  is still cheaper.

Also do you have any advice on dealing with the safety and handling issues of the resin itself?  I have been looking at that issue and it is the major thing holding me back on a purchase right now.

Tim

@cnw780 - Tim, There's more to the machine for the price than only the tilt-release feature.  I would suggest looking at the reviews.  The main gripe most reviewers have about it is the build plate and its complexity, making it take a while to clean...or wipe off.  Since the vast majority of my printing is done using only one resin, I usually just let the build plate drip for an hour or so an an acute angle off the machine...or overnight depending on when the print gets finished...then, since my prints are usually very short, I don't remove the print rafts and dunk them along with the build plate into my initial dirty wash bucket for about six minutes and let it run, then remove...then dunk into my second "clean" wash bucket for about four minutes.  Then, I let the print rafts dry, maybe helping them along with a medium heat hair dryer...THEN, I remove the rafts from the build plate.  Most of the time, I cure the prints before removing from the rafts & supports.  I've got my supports down so that the prints are always pretty easy to remove from the supports, with minimal pitting or edge-dressing to do...meaning usually none.

This process leaves the build plate clean, except I wipe the build plate surface with a paper towel that got a bit of clean 92% Alcohol on it before mounting it back on my machine ready for the next print.

So, I don't do much wiping of the top of the build plate anyway, so its complexity is totally irrelevant to my work flow.

My answer to whether it's "worth the extra price" is a definite "yes"...especially at these sale prices.

Those who I have advised in the near past will also agree with me...one who was brand-new to 3D resin printing, and remarked to me that half of information he though he would have to input as far as slicing is concerned wasn't even there on the spec sheet, because the tilt-release technology makes that information not applicable, thus greatly simplifying the printing/slicing complexity.  Perfect for beginners and experienced printers too.

As far as safety is concerned.  The uncured resin has some very undesirable properties and may be toxic, when ingested, or skin/eye/nose contact is made, and the fumes may be toxic also.  No info is available (that I could find) about long term effects, but, I assume that care, procedural consistency and physical protection should ALWAYS be followed, as well as clearing your head and concentrating on the business at hand when handling uncured resin.

I always wear old clothes that if I spill, I can cure, then throw away.  I always wear Nitrile gloves and I don't skimp on their use.  I always have a container of 99% Alcohol readily at hand if I need to clean myself or my environment.  I have a paper towel dispenser on the wall with an extra roll of towels immediately handy if I need it. And, my 3D resin print bench is directly adjacent to my homemade spray booth and the fan is ON when I'm printing or handling resin...in fact, I keep it on all the time.  Silicone pet food mats or the equivalent are absolutely necessary under your machine and your wash & cure equipment, because they clean up really quickly and easily if you spill or drip, and you definitely will drip.  I haven't had a spill yet, and now that my handling routine is engraved in my head, I probably won't.

However, you need to be aware of where your body is at...for instance where your bare forearms are...all in relation to an open bottle of resin, or drippage in an aluminum backing pan with resin-soaked paper towels in it, or your build plate draining at an angle in a disposable aluminum pan.  I always have at least half a dozen paper towels already torn off the roll and stacked for immediate access when I need them.

Also, if possible, your print room should not be carpeted.  If it is, then I would cut 3/8" plywood to cover it with (if possible) a single sheet at your printing bench.

If you don't want to continually dump your resin that's in your vat back into the bottle...a time-consuming process...then leave it in your resin vat with the cover down, with a plastic waste-basket bag over it to minimize fumes.

Keep one or two waste baskets close by lined with garbage bags that have a tie-off cord.  You'll use these for paper towels, gloves, resin soaked paper towels, uncured print failures...and keep them usually closed to minimize fumes.

Resin cures quite quickly, and becomes non-toxic after curing...so, sometimes I'll use one of UV flashlights to cure a resin soaked paper towel, or a little spill on an old T-shirt so I can still use the shirt.  Having at least one UV flashlight is a good idea.

Always work slowly, carefully and be observant...without distractions...and never never let uncured resin get on your skin if you can possibly help it.  If it happens, immediately wipe it off with a clean towel, them with an alcohol soaked towel.  Make sure you get it OFF.

I think that's about it. Hope it's helpful.  I guarantee you that once you're into this, you won't regret your decision because it opens up a world of new model making possibilities.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[cnw780]

Those who I have advised in the near past will also agree with me...one who was brand-new to 3D resin printing, and remarked to me that half of information he though he would have to input as far as slicing is concerned wasn't even there on the spec sheet, because the tilt-release technology makes that information not applicable, thus greatly simplifying the printing/slicing complexity.  Perfect for beginners and experienced printers too.

That is what I was getting at Bob.  Does it solve enough beginner's headaches that it is worth the price.  Sounds like yes.

How often you you replace an LCD screen?  Any tips on keeping those alive as long as possible?

Tim