Which 3d printer to buy

[robert3985]

That is what I was getting at Bob.  Does it solve enough beginner's headaches that it is worth the price.  Sounds like yes.

How often you you replace an LCD screen?  Any tips on keeping those alive as long as possible?


Tim

Tim, I definitely would not call this machine "a beginner's machine" because of the advanced features.  On the other side of the coin, the advanced tilt-release feature greatly simplifies the input anybody (beginner or expert) will have to make with any non-tilt-release machine, whether it be a "beginner" ( small, inexpensive) or "advanced" (lots of features, large, expensive) machine.  So, it's operationally much more simple than ANY non-tilt-release machine.

The LCD screen MTTF for the Saturn 4 16K Ultra is 2000 hours, which is considered to be "robust".  This is not how long the machine is "on", but how many hours the LCD is being actively in use.  This could be many years depending on your printing frequency, and thus, one of the reasons to have another LCD to install when your otherwise perfectly functioning machine's LCD finally wears out years after it's out of production.

LCD screens start to degrade as soon as they're used because of the UV light that flows through them at each and every exposure. Many users consider the LCD screen to be a consumable item, but others say that it isn't because of its slow rate of degradation and generous MTTF.

I suggested it because it's something that's easy to ignore, until your print quality starts to suffer and the LCD for your machine may, or may not be available any longer...OR it gets damaged.   Your printer is just a paperweight without a functioning LCD.  If you use your printer for your important projects, then you need to have a spare LCD.  If you don't use your printer for months on end, then maybe not.

Not a lot you can do to minimize UV usage other than to not print anything.  However, damage is the other cause of LCD failure, usually caused by resin spillage.  Just be careful to not puncture the release film on your resin tank, or get overly enthusiastic when stirring your resin in the vat, or tilting the vat too much when removing it, or over filling it.  I haven't had a "spill" yet in the five or six years I've been at this, and I don't plan on ever having one because I stay vigilant and attentive when printing.

Additionally, your machine has pressure sensors and an algorithm that will automatically shut down a printing process if it detects any debris or failed print detritus floating around in your resin tank, which can puncture your release film and/or break your LCD.  It's another essential feature IMO and a good reason to pay a little extra for that feature.


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Erock482]

I agree with @robert3985 recommendation of the elegoo Saturn series.

My first three machines (An original anycubic Photon and 2 Photon Mono X's) were great machines, but as I have learned more about 3D printing I have found that anycubic tends to lock down their software parameters a bit more (Or atleast did in the era of the Mono X being in the top of the running)

Elegoo systems had more open control, no fixed number of transition layers on the burn in, the ability to change the layer properties of individual or a range of layers. Things that can be very helpful when trying to eliminate printing artifacts or improving dimensional consistency and eliminating the effects of Elephants foot or bloom with various resins.

My newest machine which I've had for a few years now is an elegoo Saturn 3 ultra. The machine has been excellent and consistent. And frankly I'm thinking of replacing the mono X I still have with another one of these units since they can be had for lower cost than the new Saturn 4 Ultra.

However, the new saturn 4 ultra with the 16K screen seems like it will be the next "Primary" printer in my fleet.

A new Saturn 3 Ultra can be had for under $300 bucks, which in my opinion is a great deal. It doesn't have the heated vat or tilt release. But I have found in my experience I don't really need those functions, yet.

[Scottl]

I got a great Black Friday deal on a Saturn 4 16K ultra.  I have had a few days and printing cycles to work with it and have some impressions, not all favorable.  My perspective is having used an Anycubic (AC) Mono 4K for a year, printing all sorts of small and large prints including freight cars, bridges, details, and household items.

The Saturn is big.  I mean, really BIG.  It takes a lot of space and the tilt top is OK, but requires back clearance, which seems like poor design IMO.  The seal on the tilt top is sloppy when in place, leading to VOC exit (more later).  The machine is heavy, substantial and solid.  Build is good.  Gives confidence it will be stable.

The vat is large and takes a lot of resin to just get to the minimum (I only went a fraction and it worked fine).  The build plate is similarly large but the design results in accumulation of resin on the plate and inevitable risk of spillage when taking the plate off.  They realize that the issue is real and provide a plastic spill tray to insert before removing the plate to keep the drips out of the machine.  The risk of mess here is notably higher than I am used to.

Operation was quiet and the screen gives useful information, even if the fonts are tiny.  The vat heater worked well and was a main reason I bought this brand (AC circulation heater seems like a mess to me).  During operation, the internal UV light source shines out of the fan port on the side, so there is danger from this and risk to shield your washing solutions, etc from the UV.  This is crappy design IMO.

The main beef I have is the fan and ambient VOC levels.  The tilt top does not seal well at the bottom, especially at the back bottom.  So the machine smells while not operating.  AC is much better sealed with zero measurable VOC in standby with resin in the vat.  During operation, the Saturn has a fan (for cooling, I suppose) that discharges from the side into the space.  This assures high VOC in the room without active venting.  In a living space, this should be a prime concern.  There are internal carbon filters you can buy and I will consider these, but the Saturn 4 seems to have dropped the USB ports in previous versions to power these, so you need a battery powered version (minor annoyance).  A room carbon filter that can handle the machine discharge is probably needed if in a living space.  I'll keep tracking it, but the machine stinks.

The factory software is terrible compared to AC.  It has rudimentary function and will get you slice files, but the ability to manually do supports is all but unusable.  Reposition or copy an item after supporting?  It either had to redo the supports or screwed them up.  AC excels at this.  Now I know why people use Chitubox with these machines, the factory Elegoo software is crap.

The positives?  The big positive is FLAWLESS printing.  I tried every angle, size, and type of file and the results are spectacular with no line or pixellation artefacts.  It is a game changer. 

The question I would ask myself, is the printing quality inherent in the higher resolution design and would be obtained from a competing machine with other user features?  I don't know, but I'll suffer through using the Saturn because I can't return it and the prints are great.  Would I recommend it?  Not sure without a close comparison of the competition.

[Chris333]

I just literally clicked from the Saturn 4 page to here.  $420 ain't bad.

The Mars 5 ultra is only $240.

[Scottl]

Yeah, mine was $520 CAD, which is like $300ish USD.  Best deal was from Elegoo direct.

The price is great and the printer is great.  It just lacks the refinement that my older AC had.  Typical of my experience with Elegoo Arduino products.

[Jesse6669]

I wouldn't expect model railroad publications to publish this type of article (ither than very pasic info skimming the 3D printing technology). While the items printed are very useful for model railroaders (and many other hobbies), like Lemosteam stated, the 3D printing is a complete and separate hobby in itself.

3D printing also competes with the rolling stock manufacturers to a degree.  And those guys--Atlas, Athearn, etc.-- pay the bills at the magazines.   Maybe if Elegoo and Phrozen start taking out multiple ads in RMC and MR?

I literally print cars where the only item I need to buy are the wheelsets and couplers (and I even have made my own couplers, which are ok, just not quite as good as N-Possible!), paint, and decals--which I also design.  A brief anecdote--I posted my Z scale tri-level autorack build on the Z forum and literally the thread was hijacked by AZL's guy who made his own tri-level autorack.  Not that I was trying to sell mine commercially--but it seems there's sensitivity to the alternate of buying from manufacturers.  Ironically, the AZL model is a 3D printed one.
 

[Chris333]

Just to share. My first Mars 5 Ultra still will not print. I get a warning that I have too much resin in the vat before the build plate even gets to the resin. I have updated the firmware twice with the same result.

My 2nd Mars 5 Ultra works great.

On thing that really sucks is they will not list firmware. They want you to hook up wifi to the printers and let them update on their own. F-that.  I found posts where many people wake up to a Mars 5 showing a black screen (all these people had the same problem on the same day) because it updated while they were sleeping.

[Scottl]

My Saturn 4U won't link to app, says the S/N the machine gives is not recognized,  lol.  I'm disconnecting the machine from wifi, the camera and app are pointless to me, and I don't want the printer communicating with the mothership.

One plus, I've finally found the religion of printing horizontal.   Perfect results so far, and much faster too.

[Chris333]

I've never even removed the lens cap of either AI cameras. Not much I print is taller than the side of the vat.

If I didn't have two Mars 5 Ultra's I might have bought the Saturn 16K, but for now I'll wait.


Edit: oh yeah when I asked them for new firmware because I didn't have wifi they told me to take the printer to a hot spot. Why not just give me the firmware?

[Scottl]

I would have bought the Mars for the size but I wanted the vat heater.  I need it where I print.