Budd Smooth-side Domes from Lowell Smith

[peteski]

Both good suggestions.  Thank you!

Or I could follow Amtrak 9461 (ex-GN) - I have a picture of it and the dome glass is the same color as the Platinum Mist body.  Weird.

Does that mean it had mirrored glass iinstead of the typical green/blue tinting?

[thomasjmdavis]

Maybe 9461 (by the time it was in Amtrak paint) had a smoked gray tint.  Or it is just reflection combined with a coat of dust.  I don't know if it is the same photo, but here is one where the tint does not read as blue-green.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23452526933

[OrangeAnon]

To me, that just looks like a reflection of a gray sky; the overall lighting of the photo suggests to me overcast conditions.

[nkalanaga]

Tom:  That's the same one I saw!

I've never seen a dome like that, even in cloudy or rainy weather.  There are pictures of domes where one or more panes are clear, while the rest are tinted, so it's possible that this one does have different glass.

[Point353]

Or I could follow Amtrak 9461 (ex-GN) - I have a picture of it and the dome glass is the same color as the Platinum Mist body.  Weird.

https://trainweb.us/DOMEmain/picGN1321a.jpg

https://trainweb.us/DOMEmain/picGN1321c.jpg

[nickelplate759]

If you look through the various pictures of these domes on flickr what you will see is that Amtrak moved over time from green-tinted glass to grey glass, and in some cars they actually mixed both!
So this car: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23452526933  seems to have all grey glass.

These cars have green domes, but note that the side windows are mixed:
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23996710201
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23452531713

[nkalanaga]

Interesting.  I didn't realize Amtrak had changed the glass.

Then there's Amtrak 9456:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23971195712/in/album-72157660532470228

The dome looks normal, but how many colors do they really need for the side windows?

[peteski]

Interesting.  I didn't realize Amtrak had changed the glass.

Then there's Amtrak 9456:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/23971195712/in/album-72157660532470228

The dome looks normal, but how many colors do they really need for the side windows?

I suspect that at this point in time Amtrak was not going for perfect appearance restoration, but just to maintain the cars at minimal costs. Also, maybe the stock of replacement windows for those cars was getting low, so they used whatever was available.

[skytop35]

If I remember correctly, Amtrak sometime in it's early years tried a non glass substitute in some of the domes (Lexan maybe?). Unfortunately it scratched very easily. I rode a dome in those years that was so badly scratched that nobody could see thru the "glass". To add insult to injury, I was hyping up the trip to a friend of mine and telling him how great a ride in the dome would be. Needless to say he wasn't impressed.

[chessie system fan]

Neat info. I hadn't considered that before. Getting back to Lowell's cars, I received my three a few days ago! 

However, the dome is shorter than on the Kato CB&Q cars.

Are the Kato domes too long, or did Budd build the cars with different length domes?

Here is a quick picture showing the difference. Top is the old Kato version (with no window glass), middle is a California Zephyr car, bottom is Lowell's new GN car.



Sooooo... I just did some research. A few years ago, I asked Charlie Vlk this exact question.  He said they were the same.  And The Passenger Car Library series has blueprints of both cars.  The domes are indeed the same.

But then I got out my ruler, measuring the dome's length down the top of the car's main roof ...


...


...and Lowell's dome car is correct.  The Kato domes are too long by a few feet.   

And notice the differences in where the roof corrugations end around each dome.  The first gen Kato car has a little curve, the California Zephyr has no curve and is square, while the Railsmith car has a big curve.  I'm guessing that that is more accurate as well. 

I like the finer roof corrugations on the Railsmith cars, too!

[Sokramiketes]

Not to ruin anyone's life, but the Kato CZ cars also got the top windows wrong.  They should be the same size as the side windows.  The original "corrugated" release was more correct.

Kato cars in general are a bit larger than 1/160.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you, Aaron! 

Mike, Kato's dome car, at least the CB&Q ones I have, are 1:160.  They're the same width and height, with the same eave height, as the Railsmith, and not more than a few scale inches longer.  The ends aren't quite the same, making that comparison harder.  The top of the dome seems to be at the same height as well.  It's just the dome that's too long.

On the other hand, the old ConCor cars were definitely too short, and the dome was also too short, a very noticeable difference compared to the Kato cars.

My 1974 Amtrak trains will almost always have the Railsmith cars, as (ex-)CB&Q cars were rare in the Empire Builder.  Put a coach between them and the two domes don't look bad together.

All three of my Kato cars, two CB&Q and one relettered Amtrak, are the "early"version.  I didn't realize they made two versions!

[Sokramiketes]

Thank you, Aaron! 

Mike, Kato's dome car, at least the CB&Q ones I have, are 1:160.  They're the same width and height, with the same eave height, as the Railsmith, and not more than a few scale inches longer.  The ends aren't quite the same, making that comparison harder.  The top of the dome seems to be at the same height as well.  It's just the dome that's too long.

On the other hand, the old ConCor cars were definitely too short, and the dome was also too short, a very noticeable difference compared to the Kato cars.

My 1974 Amtrak trains will almost always have the Railsmith cars, as (ex-)CB&Q cars were rare in the Empire Builder.  Put a coach between them and the two domes don't look bad together.

All three of my Kato cars, two CB&Q and one relettered Amtrak, are the "early"version.  I didn't realize they made two versions!

Sorry, didn't mean to imply they are 1:150 or anything outrageous.  Just that they scale out a touch large, like the details were added onto a buck that was scale size. 

[nkalanaga]

I got the domes in my Kato and ConCor cars tinted, with a somewhat unusual method.  Rather than painting them, as I never did find a good transparent paint, I used an alcohol-based ink, which I found at Michael's.

"Tim Holtz Alcohol Inks", "Green/Blue 8 pack", UPC code 7-89541-07615-5, part number TAK76155.  I used the "Mermaid" color, which looked closest to me. 

It was easy to do, although I have no idea how the ink is supposed to be used.  They come in 14 ml plastic bottles, with a very small squeeze tip.  No way to dip a pen in one, like normal inks, but for window tinting that doesn't matter.  I tried them on an old jewel case, and they went on smooth, with no damage to the plastic.

To do the domes, I took a "foam swab" from work, basically a cotton swab with a foam end instead of cotton.  Rather than try to apply the ink to the dome, then spread it around, I wet the swab with isopropyl alcohol, then squeezed ink onto the wet swab.  A couple swipes around the inside of the dome and it was done.  It stayed wet long enough to do eight cars, with little variation in density.  Mine came out a little darker than the new Railsmith cars, but not much, and that could be adjusted by using less ink on the swab.  The prototypes, according to pictures, also varied, sometimes on the same dome, so they look fine.

The ink can be removed with isopropyl alcohol, if one doesn't like the result.  It is permanent ink, though, so be sure not to get it on anything one doesn't want stained.  It's intended for non-porous surfaces, I have no idea what it would do on paper, wood, or fabric.  They're also not cheap, my set was $18 on clearance, but they do work for tinting plastic windows.  They're available from most craft chains, and Amazon, according to a quick search by part number.

https://rangerink.com/collections/tim-holtz-alcohol-inks