Elevator for upper/lower deck

[voldemort]

I don't think I have the capabilities or the room to put in a Helix. I'd like an elevated deck in a limited amount of space.  I know its not prototypical, but it could be functional. 

I have been messing around with arduinos, so far the only useful thing I've made is a motion alarm that scares the bejesus out of you when it sees a bear (or a squirrel, or whatever) outside the tent at night.

I have n scale, which, as I think we all are vaguely aware, is more sensitive than other scales

What I'm thinking of is using a stepper motor (they're motors that you can control the number of and fractions of a revolution on) with screw drives (the motors rotating the screws) to make, maybe a 6-8 foot length of track (or perhaps even better, a 3x3.5 foot u turn of track) on a table that raises a train up to the second level.  I'm struggling with how to connect the tracks securely (and accurately) at the top and bottom.

Anybody tried this before?

[CRL]

You mean like this?

http://www.nelevation.com/nelevator/

[mark dance]

I have a good friend building one (3 13' tracksx7 levels I think) in HO using 2 electric cylinders and off the shelf controllers.  I think cost so far is under 2k$C and accuracy and repeatability are great. Honestly i think when he eventually publishes the results many/most people should reconsider helixes all together.

Although he is an engineer by training he hasn't practced in a long time. Building one should be well within capability of average MRs. 

He isn't a member here. If you PM me your email i will see if he is ok conversing with you that way. My guess is yes.

I will also check to see if he is ok with me posting a short video.

Md

[ednadolski]

You mean like this?

http://www.nelevation.com/nelevator/

"capable of storing up to 20 realistic length N gauge trains"

Now there's a subjective term....   

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2553761



Ed

[thomasjmdavis]

"capable of storing up to 20 realistic length N gauge trains"

Now there's a subjective term....   

Ed

I counted a locomotive an 7 passenger cars, so am guessing about 4' or 1.25 meters or thereabouts. 

Imagine the fun Gomez Addams could have had with a Nelevator.

[Mark5]

"capable of storing up to 20 realistic length N gauge trains"

Now there's a subjective term....   

Ed

Lol, for me realistic is 50 to 200 cars. For this reason I'll likely stay an N scaler.

Mark

[thomasjmdavis]

OK, fun is over, back to the OP's question.  I've never done this in a model application.  But the basic concept of using matched screws as a vertical drive is sound.  An example is a wood planer, where one common design uses Acme thread screws on the 4 corners of the cutter head housing to adjust the height of the cutter head, and the repeatable accuracy is impressive. 

However, I wonder if all the stepper-motor driven screws are not going farther than necessary (unless you just want to do it that way) if the idea is to move between 2 levels.  How about a simple counterweight, with the table moved manually, and a couple pegs in the moving table that fit into holes in the 2 static levels for alignment?  Or using an industrial lift table as the basic machinery-
https://www.amazon.com/Goplus-Hydraulic-Scissor-Lift-Cart/dp/B01N8XO8FG/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=goplus+scissor+lift&qid=1598121644&sr=8-3

[jngeddes]

Hi All,

I am the person Mark Dance mentioned. I am in the process of completing an elevator that will go from my upper deck (mainline operations/rainfanning) to my lower deck (port switching). The elevator is 13' long and has nine 6" wide shelves (wide enough for 3 tracks in HO). So it will hold 27 full length (for me) trains. In most cases the inter-shelf spacing is 5" but I have left two levels with 10" spacing so they will better allow for yard operations when at my lower level -- that is, the three tracks of the elevator will be integrated into my 7-track yard.

On the lower level trains enter the elevator from one end -- but I do use a short transfer table to allow locomotives to be taken off the far end and run around
On the upper level trains can enter the elevator from both ends -- tho in my operating scenarios, I intend to only use one end.

I used a pair of Progressive Automations linear actuators for movement and control (you can google them). They work flawlessly, are quiet, highly accurate, and reasonably fast -- certainly MUCH faster than a helix. Originally I was going to use an Arduino for control, but Progressive offers an off the shelf handheld controller that I believe will work just fine and I can leave the Arduino project to another time (if ever).

For attaching the moveable "bookcase" of shelves to the supporting wall, I have used off-the-shelf cabinet slides with a 36" travel.

At the moment I am at the stage of installing the shelves and therefore doing the alignment the shelves to the layout. Based on preliminary tests, I don't anticipate major problems.

As this is a work in progress, I don't have a write up or coherent set of pictures yet, but plan to provide a complete description of the project when I am finished.  Happy to share my experience.

Why did I chose an elevator?
- I get inter-level train movement and 27 storage tracks in only 8" depth along one wall of my layout room -- and no big "bulge" which my space did not allow.
- Inter-level time is significantly shorter than a helix (sorry I have forgotten my timing tests but in the back of my head is ~30sec)
- I can integrate the elevator tracks as the arrival and departure tracks of my yard.
- I get a cool train display (tho I will admit that the layout decks will obscure a number of the trains but nevertheless they are all generally visible).

I have endeavoured to use readily available components at all times. With the exception of the linear actuators and the cabinet slides everything has come from Home Depot and my local lumber supply store.

Cheers
John Geddes
Vancouver

[Rossford Yard]

You mean like this?

http://www.nelevation.com/nelevator/

Even their promotional video shows a discernable rail alignment problem (vertical)  It takes a real slow train to NOT derail over something like that on my lift out, and it aligns pretty well except in summer where some expansion seems to happen. Here in TX, its not uncommon for houses to shift ever so slightly.

Derailments from alignments would be my worry, but I suppose it could be built to great tolerances with enough care.  It really is a space saver!

[mark dance]

I'd like to add to John Gedde's post that his elevator design also serves as a 27 through track staging yard but, because it has no need for ladders of turnouts at both ends, likely occupies 1/2rd the length a conventional staging yard would and requires 52 less switches and switch controllers!

Voldemort/OP: I think John's approach is sound.  Basically he is using matched commercial linear actuators (which are stepping motors with ball screw drives I believe) and an off the shelf controller for the vertical motion.  He is using precision drawer slides to control horizontal positioning which I have experience with as well as I use a pair on an 8' long indexing table and 4 more on a lift gate.  They have little noticeable play and what they do have could be taken out by preloading them to one side if needed.  I haven't preloaded either of my sets. They can be seen in this old video.

Indexing Table:

Lift Gate:

As to your question on affixing the tracks I epoxied the ties to thin aluminum plates on the end of the indexing table and right down to the 3/4' ply roadbed on the lift gate.   12 years so far of trouble free ops.

I would be very interested in knowing whether you think a mechanism like what John is using would work in your application.

md

[nkalanaga]

My version, back in the late 80s, was even simpler, although probably NOT what the OP wants.  I used a barge (block of 1x4 carved to shape) and two simple loading bridges.  Load the cars on, move the barge to the other level, and unload the cars.  The upper dock was on another wall from the lower, so there was more room for lifting the barge, and I used different locos on each level.

In my bedroom there was no room for a helix, and I couldn't go all the way around the room without blocking the door, so this was the best solution.  I could have used just a board with track, but the barge looked a little better sitting there.

[mmagliaro]

Okay, so here's a slightly crazy idea, and it's also not "cheap" I warn you in advance.

Since you can convert a home "mini mill "milling machine to CNC control with stepper motors, and it is capable of locating the milling head consistently and repeatably to within 1/1000", locating an N Scale track platform like this should certainly be doable.  Did you consider looking at one of the kits that places like CNC Zone sell for driving the Z axis of a milling machine up and down?  The kits come with the ball screws and assorting mounting hardware, and they cost around $400 for one axis.  You still have to buy the stepper motor.  In fact, you might be able to build the whole thing by buying a spare milling machine column and head from Little Machine Shop (another few hundred bucks) and driving it with the CNC Zone kit.  I only suggest this because it seems like a very solid solution you could build with available off-the-shelf parts.  Once you've got a vertical drive that precislely locates a steel box up and down in the air, it would be easy to just screw a flat plate with a piece of track on it to the top of that.

[Maletrain]

Lol, for me realistic is 50 to 200 cars. For this reason I'll likely stay an N scaler.

Mark

That "Nelevator" has 3 versions of different lengths, the longest being 6'.  My staging yard plan is for 14'.  I figure I can get 50 2-bay coal hoppers behind an EM-1 with a wagontop caboose on that, which is nearly the 55 hopper rating for those locos on the B&O over the Allegheny grades.  So, for me, the longest Nelevator is only about 43% of long enough for my realistic train.

On the other hand, the concept would allow me to make a much shorter staging area.

[thbguy]

I’a big fan of train elevators and sector plates.

I think there is a difference between a switching yard or Marshalling yard on your layout, and a layout feature that provides the trains that are from the rest of the world (or at least parts that are connected, but aren’t on your layout). A helix and upper or lower level staging yard can also do this if you have room. But an elevator can be ideal.

One of my few hobby regrets was never buying the two RO-RO train elevators that I had in the plans for on my layout in the last house. Something one can always use as a display and feed trains into even a smalll layout. I’m constantly pestering @hegstad1 to add one on his layout, and he just rolls his eye at me. 😆 I know just where he could put it too.

Now, are you thinking of what would be many track levels or just a single track that moves from low to high? If you only need to match one or two levels it will probably be easier. Micro switches can be used to only power the track when the tracks are aligned. 

There was an excellent article on that in either a Model RR planning or Great model railroads annual about ten years ago.

Best regards,
Michael

[CRL]

Keep in mind the Nelevator is English made and a 6’ train on the normal sized layout found in England is probably a decent sized train.

I’ll probably be limiting train length on my layout to about 6’ due to the size of my room — 9‘ X 11’ approximately.