Question for Manufacturers

[wm3798]

Pretty sure that after 40 or 50 years, including several different attempts by several different manufacturers, you still haven't produced as many N scale GP9s and F7s in aggragate as EMD did.

This is a mistake on your part.

Why not go back to the old style manufacturing protocol where you just pooped out a generic version by the million?  Master Line is nice, but that's like taking an Oldsmobile and rebadging it as an Aston Martin.
(I already know the answer, really a rhetorical, or rather philosophical query, but still...)

Grumpy Old Man on a Budget Who Might Not Live Long Enough to See the Next GP9 Produced in Penn Central

[thomasjmdavis]

Pretty sure that after 40 or 50 years, including several different attempts by several different manufacturers, you still haven't produced as many N scale GP9s and F7s in aggragate as EMD did.

Surely you jest.  Or maybe you aren't counting the Kato ATSF F units in your total.  I have more Fs and GPs than some class 1 railroads had.  And compared to a lot of folks around here, I don't have that many.

But I do agree with your basic premise- that "standard" locomotives need to be available whenever we go into the hobby shop (and aren't).  There is a lot of short term thinking.  A two year pre-order requirement is a pretty big barrier to entry when you are a young person thinking about getting into a hobby, and the other potential hobby option is download-able immediately after your paypal payment clears.

[gelboy45]

And then perhaps I'll get some N&W Redbirds!
Please.
Gerry

[JMaurer1]

He's not jesting and don't call him Shirley.

I also have to agree that in this world of limited runs of just about everything, we need the old 'standard' run of engines and rolling stock. Now, if you miss a run, or become interested in a different road, or didn't pre-order a road, and/or didn't buy the locos/rolling stock when they were available, you might never get them.

[squirrelhunter]

Perfect example is SP bloody nose GP9's- they were everywhere on the SP and showed up secondhand in SP paint all over the country- they did a run in 2006 and in 2010, fourteen and ten years ago right now, and even if Atlas announced a run today, the best possible delivery date would be another 2 years from today.

Try finding one anywhere, at any price.

The exceptionally long time between runs of common equipment for major railroads hurts N scale in particular and model railroading in general when competing for entertainment dollars, which is really the industry model manufacturers are in. If mobile apps, gaming consoles, R/C cars and drones, and even plastic models offer the ability to get what you want when you want, and model trains are available in 2 years, you are going to lose market share.

The trend to more detail specific, limited run and longer lead time products pushes the customer base away from casual customers to a shrinking number of die hards.

The only place the hobby seems to be tradning away from this is on modern (post 1995) equipment, like Exactrail doing 2 runs on their TBOX in just a couple of years and Scale Trains with the GEVO and -9 runs.

[CBQ Fan]

Kato sets with an engine car and some track always seem to be available online at least. You can’t go wrong there as a newbie. The have a good variety as well. I still see the same Bachmann crud from 30-40-50 years ago depending on how old you are.

[Point353]

Pretty sure that after 40 or 50 years, including several different attempts by several different manufacturers, you still haven't produced as many N scale GP9s and F7s in aggragate as EMD did.

How many of the Bachmann GP9 and F7 locos have you purchased?

Why not go back to the old style manufacturing protocol where you just pooped out a generic version by the million?

Would you really accept a generic version, or are you at all particular about such road specific details as the style of numberboards, headlights, fan height, grille type, fuel tank size, steam generator, etc?

[Jbub]

How many of the Bachmann GP9 and F7 locos have you purchased?
Would you really accept a generic version, or are you at all particular about such road specific details as the style of numberboards, headlights, fan height, grille type, fuel tank size, steam generator, etc?

TBH, Yes. When I got back into the hobby I didn't know anything nor care about prototypical detailing and as long as the general engine was mostly correct I thought it would do well on a layout. But now that there is a drought of certain pieces of railroad equipment I would buy a well built, but generic version of an F unit or early hood diesel. As my modeling abilities increase and my want for more prototypical detail grows I feel more able to make the engine look to the way I'd like it. I will buy way more Scaletrains operator units than rivet counters. I can add detail later and have fun doing it.

[peteski]

. . .
But I do agree with your basic premise- that "standard" locomotives need to be available whenever we go into the hobby shop (and aren't).  There is a lot of short term thinking.  A two year pre-order requirement is a pretty big barrier to entry when you are a young person thinking about getting into a hobby, and the other potential hobby option is download-able immediately after your paypal payment clears.

Yes, when I got back into model RR hobby in the '80s (pre-Internet days) and shopped at Charles RO in Malden, MA, Ken's Trains in Sudbury, MA, or many other hobby still active in the 20 mile range of my house, they all carried the "staple" N scale locos which have been available for years.  All the Bachmann "white box" steam and diesel offerings, and for better quality, Atlas (Kato Japan made) RS-3 and RS-11s.  They were always available, and plentiful.

Available I said, but with limited number or roadnames, and single road numbers.  Also many fantasy schemes.  Do you want to go back to that? While we (including me) gripe a lot, I think that  in the 30 plus years from those times, manufacturers have made serious advances.  The paradigm (such a nasty word) has shifted. The cheese was moved.

Yes, limited runs and pre-ordering are a major pain in the you-know-what, but the contemporary model's fidelity, multiple road numbers, lots of different roadnames, higher level of details, and well running mechanisms are all welcome features.  I rather have to deal with limited runs, than just have the same old Bachman locos in stock and available for year after year, after year.

And as for that hobby shop you mentioned where those "standard" always-in-stock model could be found - where are those hobby shops?  I miss them.

[jdcolombo]

The old "run a huge batch and wait to sell 'em" method is dead, gone, buried.  Manufacturers can't afford to keep that kind of inventory and there are too few B&M hobby shops left to foist it off on them to keep.  Quick inventory turnover is the way the world works.  For everything, not just models.

What I do hope for is the day when manufacturers sell a generic MECHANISM and you can custom-order your shell, which will be 3D printed and painted for you.  Every paint scheme available; custom shell details no problem.  Even custom truck sideframes.   It's all just a digital file until printed and painted.  You pop the shell on the mechanism, add couplers, and off you go.

I thought we'd be farther along on this system by now, but printing costs haven't come down as quickly as I expected (perhaps because quality is going up?).

John C.

[Mike Madonna]

Well said, John....

[Point353]

What I do hope for is the day when manufacturers sell a generic MECHANISM and you can custom-order your shell, which will be 3D printed and painted for you.  Every paint scheme available; custom shell details no problem.  Even custom truck sideframes.   It's all just a digital file until printed and painted.  You pop the shell on the mechanism, add couplers, and off you go.

I've mentioned it before, but even if the shells aren't printed and painted to order, I'd like to see them sold separately from the mechanisms.
When the manufacturer makes a production run of a group of roadnames, you should be able to buy the shell and then buy the matching mechanism in whichever version you want, be it DC, DCC or DCC+sound - instead of an entire loco in bronze, silver or gold grades.
In HO, Life-Like used to package the shells separated from the mechanism - but in the same box - so this doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

[peteski]

I've mentioned it before, but even if the shells aren't printed and painted to order, I'd like to see them sold separately from the mechanisms.
When the manufacturer makes a production run of a group of roadnames, you should be able to buy the shell and then buy the matching mechanism in whichever version you want, be it DC, DCC or DCC+sound - instead of an entire loco in bronze, silver or gold grades.
In HO, Life-Like used to package the shells separated from the mechanism - but in the same box - so this doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

What about the fuel tank/air tanks/battery boxes details, and truck sideframes?  Those could vary depending on the road name of the shell.

[PiperguyUMD]

The world needs more athearn blue boxes! When I was in high school and in HO scale, this is what got me into the hobby. A solid model that could be customized in as detailed a unit as you could want.

[dem34]

Wish there was a large enough market for a company to have a run of generalized parts available for bashing beyond whats found in parts departments. Over in Japan Tomix and Bandai have extensive product lines of basically just generic mechanisms. With the growing prevalence of 3D printing I'm surprised nobody has made a stretchable chassis with interchangeable trucks towers specifically to be mated with any 3D printed shell.