Repairing Water-Damaged Brass Locomotives

[ChristianJDavis1]

Vague and misleading title out of the way, I could use The Railwire's collective knowledge on a project that is probably way above my pay grade. Recently I was gifted several brass locomotives from the estate of a recently-departed friend, with the warning that they had survived a house fire and the subsequent extinguishing of said fire. "Survived" is  a very strong word. Upon initial inspection, all three looked to only have some cosmetic issues. Of the three, a Key C&O T-1 (2-10-4) appeared to have suffered the worst, with visible rust on the surface of the model, which appears to be from the screws holding it together. Some of the screws on the model are beyond-shot; crumbling to dust when touched with a screwdriver. This would be a great aid in disassembly if the entire screw would disintegrate, but it is only the heads its seems. So now I have four "sort of there" screws that I cannot remove, and I am looking for advice on how to remove them. I don't know if this engine will ever run again, but I can't even begin to sort that out if i can't get the shell off. Any help would be appreciated. Warning; I am not a photographer, but some of these images are not for the faint of heart:

[Steveruger45]

Try applying some “ pb blaster” to the stubborn screws and let it soak in. Reapply a few times.  If the Phillips head on the screws is rounded out try grinding a slot across the head with a small cutting disk in a Dremel so you can use a flat screwdriver.
Good luck.

[Kentuckian]

Disclaimer: I am as far from being a machinist as I am from being mistaken for Miss America.

It seems that there are two options, or variations on the two. I have heard of people taking a Dremel, cutting a slot in the screw head and using a blade screwdriver to remove the screw. This method might work on the two Philips head screws on the rear of the locomotive. It would also damage the body a little, but that could be repaired.

The alternative is to drill out the screw head. Once the boiler is removed, there MAY be enough screw standing proud of the hole to grab with vise grips and turn out. If not, again try to cut a slot in what’s left of the screw and use a blade screwdriver. If all else fails, drill out the old screw. Then you could retap the same hole, or rig an alternate method to re-attach the boiler.

In any case I would spray some WD40 or other type of penetrant on the screws first.

The best thing to do is to probably sell it to me!

[wvgca]

the water shouldn't damage the brass, or the stainless steel ...it will damage ordinary steel, the previous advise given is good ..

[Doug G.]

The main thing is to get those steel screws soaked real well with penetrant. It won't hurt anything else and can be cleaned off. You need to get them to turn. Otherwise, it'll be a nightmare trying to drill them out and such.

Doug

[ChristianJDavis1]

Drilling was originally what I thought once I realized the screws were shot. I don't think I want to grind slots in them if I'm going to risk damaging the actual shell; maybe I could do it slow enough by hand? I have some replacement screws provided by Samhongsa in the little baggies, so if I can get the screws out without damaging the threads, I at least don't have to worry about that. I was thinking of WD-40 for the screws on the back, but was wondering if that would mess anything up (but now that I think about it, it can't get any worse than full-submersion!). Thank you for the advise, which probably won't be utilized until after Altoona. And selling the pieces is a no-go. They are sort of sentimental, as they are reminders of their former owner.

[ChristianJDavis1]

The main thing is to get those steel screws soaked real well with penetrant. It won't hurt anything else and can be cleaned off. You need to get them to turn. Otherwise, it'll be a nightmare trying to drill them out and such.

Doug

Yeah, it looks like a nightmare already. This one is by far the worst. The others, a Key FEF and Key GS5 are both in much better condition, but the screws are both rusted in place (but aren't crumbling). The GS5 actually runs, so I would just be opening it up to clean it up a little. FEF is DOA, with a seized bearing (but Samhongsa so kindly provided a spare).

[Chris333]

Stick it in an ultrasonic cleaner for a while.

[ChristianJDavis1]

Stick it in an ultrasonic cleaner for a while.

The whole assembled engine? I think we own a cleaner, but probably not big enough for the entire locomotive. I would have to double check.

[Chris333]

As much as will fit. Just wondering what fluid to use.

[nkalanaga]

IF, and it's a big "if", you have the skill, you might try putting the whole thing in a drill press, and drilling a small hole in the center of each screw.  Then, very carefully, glue a piece of spring steel wire in each hole, and use that to twist the screw out. 

The problem is to do it without damaging the shell details, while still holding everything steady for drilling.

They make screw-extractors, which do much the same thing, by screwing a reverse-threaded screw into the drilled hole, but I doubt that they make, or the average modeler could afford, a set for our tiny screws.

[mmagliaro]

Personally, I would try slotting the screws and putting the penetrant in there for a while to see if you can get lucky and get them out.
If that fails, I would just drill them out, re-tap the holes and put in new screws. 

That is a little bit tedious, but is not very hard.  A pin vise and some nice sharp new bits will make short work of drilling out the screws.
Re-tapping the holes isn't so awful.  Since you would be replacing the screws, you can just use an 0-80, 1-72, or 2-56 tap, depending on the hole size you have to work with.

As for what's in there, they are most likely metric screws, anywhere from M1.4 to M2.0 for body and shell screws.  Those are not hard to find online.  So if you get lucky and get them out, they are replaceable.

Beyond that, I see rust down in the driver bearings, so you definitely want to clean that out.  You might find, if and when you get that gear plate off, that there is more rust underneath, given the rust showing on the bearings, so expect to have to remove drivers and scrub out rust with cleaners and small brushes.

This is not going to be an easy job.  But brass locos are pretty sturdy, simple beasts inside.  I think it's worth the effort.

[Chris333]

The axles are probably steel.

[Kentuckian]

And selling the pieces is a no-go. They are sort of sentimental, as they are reminders of their former owner.

I thought as much. I was mostly joking. The T-1 is a really cool engine, but slightly out of my late transition era and the brass one is hugely out of my budget. I am collecting the bits and pieces for a build based on the Con-Cor 2-10-2.

Be patient and work slowly and carefully and you will be fine. I am sorry about the loss of your friend, and good luck with the project. Please keep us updated.

[JMaurer1]

I was going to offer to try and repair the GS-5 for you, but it might take me years to do...at least several years to do...and you said it's already running.