Repairing Water-Damaged Brass Locomotives

[Point353]

Try applying some “ pb blaster” to the stubborn screws and let it soak in.

I was thinking of WD-40 for the screws on the back, but was wondering if that would mess anything up (but now that I think about it, it can't get any worse than full-submersion!).

[mmagliaro]

Question to the OP:
Are you hoping to preserve the paint on these?  If you are, putting them in an ultrasonic cleaner will strip all the paint off, so you can't go that route.

Otherwise, I really think you will find that the steel parts (screws and axles) are the entire source of all your rust, not the brass.  The screws and axles (and inside, the axles in the gearbox, and the motor) will be the problem areas.  As scary as it sounds, I would disassembly the engine as far in as you can possible go to make sure you have cleaned it all out.  Rust will come back if you don't get rid of all of it.

If you can take the engine all apart and clean each rusted part by hand, I bet it will run again.   The drivers and rods didn't rust because they are nickel or nickel plated brass, not steel.

Don't be surprised if you have to replace the motor.  But there are plenty of options for motors in these bigger brass models.  Lots of room inside.

[ChristianJDavis1]

Question to the OP:
Are you hoping to preserve the paint on these?  If you are, putting them in an ultrasonic cleaner will strip all the paint off, so you can't go that route.

Otherwise, I really think you will find that the steel parts (screws and axles) are the entire source of all your rust, not the brass.  The screws and axles (and inside, the axles in the gearbox, and the motor) will be the problem areas.  As scary as it sounds, I would disassembly the engine as far in as you can possible go to make sure you have cleaned it all out.  Rust will come back if you don't get rid of all of it.

If you can take the engine all apart and clean each rusted part by hand, I bet it will run again.   The drivers and rods didn't rust because they are nickel or nickel plated brass, not steel.

Don't be surprised if you have to replace the motor.  But there are plenty of options for motors in these bigger brass models.  Lots of room inside.

As much as I would like to, I’m pretty sure it’s not feasible to preserve the paint. I would rather have a running engine than the marred paint, anyway. And I knew the steel was the source of the rust; I guess sometimes you forget how bad rust can gunk things up. New motor I pretty much assumed as well, but I had nothing invested in these so far so it’s no big deal to have to replace the motor. I’m just hoping it is within my skill range to actually achieve all of this; the screw through the center of the boiler rusted halfway into the hole; wondering if the brass(?) screw it is threaded into comes out as well (it has a slot in it, which makes me think it does). Luckily I do have a J1 to compare it to.

[mmagliaro]

It sounds to me like you have a very realistic picture of what you are up against here.  It's really not all that bad.  It may take a bunch of hours, but none of it is all that bad, because no complicated parts are broken or missing.  Drilling and threading holes, cleaning off rust, and disassembling/reassmbling... it can all be done.

My only other bit of advice is that if you don't already have them, invest in some really good American-made industrial wire drills for this.  Using the pin vise drill bits you find in hobby stores is very frustrating when working on brass and steel.  Hunt down some "Precision Twist Drill" company bits on eBay (or similar Cleveland, Union, or other new-old-stock USA made wire drill bits).   They make drilling in metal so much easier. 

[DKS]

Missed this thread. Bring it up to the woods. We'll have at it.

[Steveruger45]

My only other bit of advice is that if you don't already have them, invest in some really good American made industrial wire drills for this.  Using the pin vise drill bits you find in hobby stores is very frustrating when working on brass and steel.  Hunt down some "Precision Twist Drill" company bits on eBay (or similar Cleveland, Union, or other new-old-stock USA made wire drill bits).   They make drilling in metal so much easier.

Yes yes a thousand times yes.  Good quality drill bits a must if you need to go down the “drill it out” route.
Dormer is a good brand too.

[ChristianJDavis1]

Missed this thread. Bring it up to the woods. We'll have at it.

Well, now I know they will get done. Packed along with about a thousand other things.

[mmagliaro]

Yes yes a thousand times yes.  Good quality drill bits a must if you need to go down the “drill it out” route.
Dormer is a good brand too.

Dormer is the company that now owns Precision Twist Drill (and Union Butterfield).
They are an excellent brand.

The reason I suggest looking for NOS on eBay is that good bits, especially in small sizes like #72 - #80, are so darn expensive that it can save you a lot of money if you can find old 12-packs being cleaned out of somebody's old machining business or garage.

[strummer]

I would suggest picking up some "LP-1" spray lubricant; I see it's available on Amazon.

I worked at an aqua-culture facility during the 1980s: the site was right on the Pacific, so you can imagine the rust issues we had to deal with. At some point we were turned onto the "LP" line, and were all amazed by what this stuff was capable of freeing up.

It's expensive, but well worth it.

Mark in Oregon

[nkalanaga]

WD-40 might damage some paints, but doesn't seem to harm most of them.  Since it does a great job of removing tar from autos, without damaging the paint, I have no idea what types of paint are safe.  It doesn't like the old 1970s Pactra in the little square bottles!

Other than that it shouldn't hurt anything.  It was developed to dry out space satellites before launch, so would have to be safe for electrical and electronic parts, as well as most plastics.  Other than the Pactra paint I haven't damaged anything with it in all the years I've used it.

[Steveruger45]

Wd40.  If the inventor got the water displacement recipe he liked on the 39th attempt it would be called WD39.
https://www.wd40.com/history/

[DKS]

This has been an enjoyable challenge. Most all of the hard work on the T-1 is done; the parts have all been disassembled, cleaned up and repaired, and the loco is now ready for reassembly. Many of the screws were rusted into their threads. After soaking them in WD-40 for a few hours, most came free. Some didn't, and I had to drill out their heads to release the parts, then drill out their remains. Fortunately, in most cases, the steel was so far gone they drilled out easily and I just had to clean up the threads and find replacement screws. On a few occasions I had to re-drill slightly larger, then tap for new screws. The toughest part has been the springs in the frame: they were blobs of rust at the outset. Soaking them in WD-40 revealed they weren't as far gone as I feared.

I wish I had the forethought to photograph the process, especially when I finally got the cover plate off the frame: the interior was choked with rust, and I feared the worst. But everything has cleaned up quite well. I was also very worried about the motor, which was seized, but after very carefully freeing up the driveshaft, and giving it an ultrasonic bath in heptane, it runs like a champ. It looks to me as if the T-1 was remotored with a Maxon, and that's likely what saved it (the FEF wasn't so lucky--that motor was totally destroyed). The worst of it, cosmetically, is the tender, where it was exposed to so much heat that the paint is blistered and discolored. I actually think a careful weathering job should disguise the damage pretty well.

[DKS]

Here are a couple of "after" images showing the chassis reassembled. After tweaking the siderods and valve gear, it runs as smooth as silk.





The screws holding the cover plate to the frame were in the worst shape, and I had to drill and tap the holes for flathead 0-80s; they're a bit big looking, but I had very few options since the holes had become too big for 00-90s. At least they work.

[Steveruger45]

Very nicely resurrected indeed.

[dem34]

Did you guys have to put in a new motor? A got a LL GP40 from the same "pile" and I'm wondering if its got similar damage.


Things mostly dead, just keeping some it for spares.