Need help understanding Kadee collector market..

[Rossford Yard]

I will say, even at the low prices I typically ask for, at the end of a show or selling appointment, I am surprised by how much $$$ comes in, mostly due to volume of sales, LOL.  Cleared over $2000 every time I set up at a train show, and still have stuff to sell.

[djconway]

What if his wife dies first?     

Then I'll have to sell quilting, cross stitch, and needle point supplies.

[CNscale]

While the 180189 and 180197 cars are relatively common, the N Scale Collector (now called the N Scale Enthusiast) and the N-Scale Reference Guide (which was formerly called the Sootsman's Guide and is now compiled by Jack Armstrong, with assistance from Bob McAllan) have both reported that only twenty-four to twenty-five of the 180199 were produced.

There's a 180199 down on my layout, does that mean there's 26 in circulation now? Of course mine is nicely weathered, which I assume increases the value  . (Well it does to me, anyway).

.. we purchased 80 boxes of stuff (from large flat rate to moving boxes, not knowing what was in them.. turns out they were full of mint condition Microtrains, Atlas, Kato, ect stuff from the last 40 years.

Which explains why the prices are dropping --- as collectors die off and their collections get put back into circulation.

[pmpexpress]

Quote from: learmoia on Today at 01:04:23 PM
.. we purchased 80 boxes of stuff (from large flat rate to moving boxes, not knowing what was in them.. turns out they were full of mint condition Microtrains, Atlas, Kato, ect stuff from the last 40 years.

Which explains why the prices are dropping --- as collectors die off and their collections get put back into circulation.

Bingo!

You've nailed it...

Since the advent of eBay and ecommerce sales, the former "gate keepers" can no longer restrict the flow of items that are offered for sale.

There's a plethora of vintage N and HO scale products that have been stashed away for decades that are just now beginning to emerge.

Given the sheer number of collectors that once existed and the volume of items that were hoarded, I believe that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

[learmoia]

Bingo!

You've nailed it...

Since the advent of eBay and ecommerce sales, the former "gate keepers" can no longer restrict the flow of items that are offered for sale.

There's a plethora of vintage N and HO scale products that have been stashed away for decades that are just now beginning to emerge.

Given the sheer number of collectors that once existed and the volume of items that were hoarded, I believe that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

... This collection was out of the ordinary.. (A true hording situation).. not much rhyme or reason, multiples of most things, lots of NIB - with purchase receipts.. Luckily it was stored properly, and was in great condition..

I'm sure there were numerous $100 MT cars in there.. lots of blue label stuff.. Our shop usually deals more in HO and O, so they asked me (being knowledgeable in current 2nd hand values of N scale stuff) to go through everything and price it. 

They asked me to price the rare cars higher, and I agreed.. But as I started digging into the first (of 60) boxes of 100+ MT cars and finding 6-8 of the same blue label MT car with multiple numbers.. Then finding more of the same in another box.. plus Yellow label Rapidos in the same scheme (in some cases 20 cars in the same scheme)..  (Knowing the MT Market had come down from the highs, I just said 'Ef-It' and priced ALL Micro-trains cars at $8 each..   We still have some of this stuff, but we have sold most of it...

I do think to a certain extent that this backlog of vintage collections coming into todays market with new buyers who have never seen the stuff before.. (and much cheaper than new stuff), will bring the 'cost to enter' the hobby back into reason, our LHS is reporting lots of people entering the hobby recently.. and once educated about the used market, they buy tons of it...

~Ian

[Doug G.]

Me, I'm just disappointed my 180189, bought when released and still in the case, is common.



I do have an originally numbered 21110 Missouri Pacific "Route of the Eagles" plug door car, though.

Doug

[Rossford Yard]

I wonder if the N scale market, and its sub segments, like collector market is even large enough to be a "rational" market? 

I am a member of the N Scale group on FB, and by chance got a notice of 13 new things for sale today.  Old freight cars all seem to be listed around $18 (some include shipping) for singles, with some discounts for buying multiple cars from the same seller.  Again, this doesn't jive with my experience of an old, purchased for about $10-12 car going for about half its original retail price.  No record on that site of how sales go, and maybe they think the market is higher by aiming only at N scale die hard enthusiasts who would sign up for that site.  They just seem high to me, given the abundance of similar items priced cheaper at train shows. (although I also see the same dealers peddling their 20 year old stock at similar pricing, and bringing the same stuff to shows year after year, I guess hoping just the right buyer comes along)

I am not a collector in the truest "one of everything X" sense, but a layout operator, buying what I like in my era (which has changed a few times over the decades).  So, while I do understand the conceptual idea of the early baby boomers dying off (not pleasant to contemplate as a later baby boomer...….) and putting more collections on the market, I have a different idea of why values have gone down....Sure, perhaps the number of "vintage N" coming on the market dilutes it, but guys interested in buying those collections would be dying off, too, no?

Second, and simply put, by today's standards, the early N scale is kind of crappy.  Why would a modern train enthusiast want to keep such poor replicas for display and/or enjoyment/running? If you like looking at trains and representations thereof, new stuff would be where its at for a collector, no?  There is less demand overall now, as evidenced by small pre-order runs, which probably translates to less demand for any older items as well.  Those would be limited to a few second gen collectors and perhaps casual or part time modelers with only passing interest in the hobby (layout for kids, whatever, but it has to be real cheap).

1970-1990 era N items aren't old enough, like Pre-WWII Lionel to really be vintage, and they sure aren't accurate, which is what seemingly drives the current N scale market.  Plus, I'm not sure plastic items will ever really be collectibles.  I would guess only a few would really value masses of them as indicators of the progress and history of N scale. 

As always, JMHO.

[CRL]

Did you really use the word “rational” here?

[Bruce Bird]

I should clarify on my previous statement that I have thrown a lot of 'collectible' items in the trash lately- none of them were train items! (whew)

I have tossed a lot of stuff that my parents bought that they thought were collectible, but not to me.  And when you don't have the time to spend to match up those unique buyers to their stuff, it goes in the trash.  I think it's great that those of us in the hobby have places other than ebay to get our stuff out to those that want to buy it but there's no guarantee my kids will be able to make that connection.  Leaving it up to your heirs to disperse is not a real good plan.

Bruce

[learmoia]

I should clarify on my previous statement that I have thrown a lot of 'collectible' items in the trash lately- none of them were train items! (whew)

Bruce

One Man's Treasure is a Wife's Junk.

I am a member of the N Scale group on FB, and by chance got a notice of 13 new things for sale today.  Old freight cars all seem to be listed around $18 (some include shipping) for singles, with some discounts for buying multiple cars from the same seller.  Again, this doesn't jive with my experience of an old, purchased for about $10-12 car going for about half its original retail price.  No record on that site of how sales go, and maybe they think the market is higher by aiming only at N scale die hard enthusiasts who would sign up for that site.  They just seem high to me, given the abundance of similar items priced cheaper at train shows. (although I also see the same dealers peddling their 20 year old stock at similar pricing, and bringing the same stuff to shows year after year, I guess hoping just the right buyer comes along)

I'm on the FB Groups too.. and this brings up the point of different things sell in different markets (fb vs ebay BIN vs ebay Auction vs train show tables)
Knowing what to put where and how to list it really helps maximize your buying.
A few rules of thumb I've picked up on over the years..
Rare Vintage Steam Locomotives: Ebay BIN or Auction. $50-150 each depending on what it is.
Atlas/Kato Diesel Locomotives: Facebook Sale sites. $40-60 each
New Freight Cars. Ebay BIN (20% off retail)
Vintage Freight Cars (singles): Facebook $3-5/car depending on trucks/couplers.
Vintage Freight Car Lots: Ebay Auction ~$3/car

Train shows are totally dependent on who is there..
Last year I was selling some used stuff at a train show, and out of pure curiosity, I took pictures of the tables and listed them simultaneously on Facebook for the same prices.. (I sold twice as much of the used loose cars on Facebook as I did at the show.)  I sold more Jewel cased cars at the train show than I did on Facebook.

Honestly Whenever I do listings I try to cross post on TRW, and I think I've only sold 2 or 3 things on TRW over the years.. (But I've sold to TRW members else ware)..

And I have run into situations where I listed items on Facebook, then relisted on Ebay (10% more to factor in fees), only to have people purchase on Ebay (when they had already purchased from me on Facebook) 

It's a strange world..

~Ian

[Point353]

Honestly Whenever I do listings I try to cross post on TRW, and I think I've only sold 2 or 3 things on TRW over the years..

Was the accumulation of the "hoarder" posted here?

[learmoia]

Was the accumulation of the "hoarder" posted here?

No

[Rossford Yard]

No

Learnmoia

I take it you meant selling when you said "Knowing what to put where and how to list it really helps maximize your buying"?  Or, if like most, you only sell to buy more later?

Saw a few more "overpriced" listings on the FB group over the weekend.  I guess they don't read here to learn the error of their ways, LOL.

[learmoia]

Learnmoia

I take it you meant selling when you said "Knowing what to put where and how to list it really helps maximize your buying"?  Or, if like most, you only sell to buy more later?

Saw a few more "overpriced" listings on the FB group over the weekend.  I guess they don't read here to learn the error of their ways, LOL.

No, the Horder collection was sold through our LHS through normal means, typically they price collections themselves to make sure they recoup costs and get a decent return.. but this collection was so big, they asked me to assist with pricing..   We didnt list it anywhere for sale since it was so much stuff to manage.  •~Ian

[Mark5]

I laugh at people that get into model railroading as an investment ...