Author Topic: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?  (Read 1386 times)

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pnolan48

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Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« on: December 17, 2018, 10:44:46 PM »
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Needed a bright orange for rescue boats on a Z scale ship. Couldn't find anything but a 30-year old (or more) bottle of UP Light Orange. Last time I had any original Floquil thinner was also at least 20 years ago. Thinking nothing to lose here, squirted some Xylene into the bottle, stirred it with a stick, then let it shake for 5 minutes. It looks good, but will it work?

GhengisKong

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 11:11:23 PM »
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I had remembered reading it was a 50/50 mix of toulene/xylene for Dio-sol

RBrodzinsky

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 11:52:19 PM »
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Should be fine, but if the original was 50:50 toluene/xylene, then the 100% xylene will take a bit more time to dry, and won’t flow quite as freely.
Rick Brodzinsky
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Bendtracker1

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 12:56:10 AM »
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I've brought a couple bottles back to life with just some straight lacquer thinner.

peteski

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 01:18:31 AM »
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From my observations, Floquil is an enamel paint.  If it hardened in the bottle, no solvent will bring it back to life.  But if was still liquid, just thickened because the solvent evaporated, then adding thinner will make it usable.  Best thing would be to add the thinner designed for that paint.  Other thinners might work for a short time but then the paint might react with it and congeal.

We also have multiple iterations of Floquil. The original (hot) formula which crazed plastic (polystyrene).  Then there was the REV1 formula, safe for plastic. Then I think the formula changed again, not too long before the paint line was discontinued.  Each version used different thinner (DioSol).  I think the toluene/xylene was the original hot formula. The others had some other solvents added to make the paint less "hot".  But as others said, in a pinch lacquer thinner will likely work ok for short duration.  If you are not sure, paint a plastic spoon and see if the paint goes on smoothly and dries hard.  Use those cheap brittle polystyrene spoons, not the flexible polypropylene ones.
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pnolan48

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 08:36:55 AM »
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I just discovered this was the Rev 1 formula--rather, I just learned what it meant. Thanks all! I have both xylene and toluene. Which is the hotter?

peteski

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 04:17:45 PM »
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I just discovered this was the Rev 1 formula--rather, I just learned what it meant. Thanks all! I have both xylene and toluene. Which is the hotter?

Not sure, but here is some interesting reading:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/93640.aspx

Some state that DioSol is 80% toululene 10- 15% Xylene plus other.
I suspect this is the old "hot" formula.

Then someone else states:
According to the MSDS on Dio-Sol it's 40-45% VM&P Naphtha, 5-10% Xylene, 1-5% Ethyl Benzene, 5-10% Aromatic Hydrocarbon Solvent, and 40-45% Light Aromatic Hydrocarbon.
This one seems like it would be the REV1 formula (these are milder solvents).

If you have both chemicals, again do the spoon test. Take a  cheap plastic (polystyrene) spoons and apply some of each chemical to the spoons and see how it affects the plastic.
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DKS

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 04:25:18 PM »
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Which is the hotter?

Um, does it matter? They're both really nasty solvents (although I believe xylene may be the worse of the two). Likely either/or would work, but since you have them both, get creative...

pnolan48

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 05:38:55 PM »
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I can't use xylene indoors! Whew, it'll knock you out. Toluene seems a little less nasty and makes up about 25% of my homemade mix glue. The other 75% is MEK. Also nasty. I can't believe beauty parlors used it for years instead of acetone because MEK was faster. I tried adding some lacquer thinner to the glue, but it seemed to really mess things up.

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 07:04:38 PM »
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I can't use xylene indoors! Whew, it'll knock you out. Toluene seems a little less nasty and makes up about 25% of my homemade mix glue. The other 75% is MEK. Also nasty. I can't believe beauty parlors used it for years instead of acetone because MEK was faster. I tried adding some lacquer thinner to the glue, but it seemed to really mess things up.

Lacquer thinner usually contains alcohols which are not solvents for polystyrene.  So it is a bad choice for liquid cement for styrene.  But if you were to use straight acetone, that would work well. But acetone evaporates fast, so mixing it with MEK (which evaporates slower) might work for you.

Tamiya thin liquid cement is mostly acetone (going by smell).
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pnolan48

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2018, 07:15:28 PM »
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Thanks Peteski and David!

My days of researching and perhaps partially understanding chemicals are long past. I've found that acetone and MEK are fine for seams and junctions, but nearly impossible for laminating sheets together especially when hull bottoms for example reach 4 feet long by 10 inches beam.

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 12:31:45 AM »
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I got some straight acetone from work, intending to use it as styrene cement.  It didn't seem to do anything.  It does take lettering off freight cars, when used on a cotton swab, but the paint damage means it's only usable if repainting the car.

If it will work as a thinner for Floquil I'll have a use for it.  My can of Dio-Sol seems to have evaporated over the last 40 years.
N Kalanaga
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narrowminded

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 05:47:32 AM »
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I got some straight acetone from work, intending to use it as styrene cement.  It didn't seem to do anything.

Quart of MEK from the hardware store.  Lifetime supply. :)
Mark G.

DKS

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 07:11:55 AM »
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My days of researching and perhaps partially understanding chemicals are long past. I've found that acetone and MEK are fine for seams and junctions, but nearly impossible for laminating sheets together especially when hull bottoms for example reach 4 feet long by 10 inches beam.

MEK is my preferred go-to solvent for bonding styrene in most circumstances. For large laminations, though, I've actually found spray cement works surprisingly well, with a little MEK applied along the edges for good measure.

As for resuscitating old Floquil, I've used acetone with variable success, depending on how far gone it is. Haven't tried xylene, as I don't keep it on hand. Just MEK (bonding styrene), acetone (thinner and brush cleaner), alcohol (general cleaner and paint stripper), and heptane (general cleaner, degreaser and 3D-print dewaxer). Oh, and I also have a little methylene chloride in case I need to bond Plexiglas.

 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 07:26:02 AM by David K. Smith »

Simon D.

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Re: Does Xylene resuscitate original Floquil?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2018, 12:07:23 PM »
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The MRH paint guide has the equivalents for UP Light Orange below; as an alternative to poisons?

Model master
Mix
4pt MM 4851
2pt MM 4880
1pt MM 4879

Vallejo
2pt VMA 71.130
1pt VMA 71.078

Modelflex
Mix ...
1pt 16-64
1pt 16-10