Author Topic: Help Kato F40PH problem - N Scale  (Read 900 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

eja

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +70
Help Kato F40PH problem - N Scale
« on: December 16, 2018, 09:40:01 PM »
0
I recently got a Kato Amtrak F40PH and put a Digitrax decoder in it.  Soldered the tabs and checked everything out.

Once I put the shell back on it, it won't do anything, except immediately caused my NCE Powercab to restart.   Take the shell off and it works just fine !

Any ideas what I should be looking at ?


Thanks ....


Ed


 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 12:21:52 PM by eja »

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2253
  • Respect: +299
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2018, 09:54:50 PM »
0
I'm going to assume you insulated that small section of the bus strip.  The other tricky part of this decoder install is the rear clip (fixed to the loco and not the removeable one).  You can't just drop the decoder in and solder the motor tabs.  You need to push the board back so the rear clip engages it and then solder the motor tabs.

Take a look at the blue square in this TCS picture.


RBrodzinsky

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +237
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2018, 09:55:58 PM »
0
Check to make sure neither of the motor tabs can come into contact with the frame or brass strips once the shell is on.
Rick Brodzinsky
Chief Engineer - JACALAR Railroad
Silicon Valley FreeMo-N

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21807
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2516
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2018, 10:38:05 PM »
+1
If the Power Cab restarts that likely means there is a dead short in the loco.  I wonder if the pickup strips are misaligned somehow and are shorting through the metal chassis once the shell is installed?
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

Mark5

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 9183
  • Always with the negative waves Moriarty ...
  • Respect: +194
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2018, 12:06:41 AM »
0
If the Power Cab restarts that likely means there is a dead short in the loco.

This

tehachapifan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Respect: +347
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 12:16:58 AM »
0
Check to make sure neither of the motor tabs can come into contact with the frame or brass strips once the shell is on.

Agreed. As I recall, the motor contacts sit SUPER close to the truck pickup strips with no real barrier between them in at least one drop-in installation (not sure if it's the Digitrax one). Seems possible that whatever gap there is between one or both with the shell off is closing with the shell on...except this type of short is often fatal for a decoder, in my experience anyway. Maybe the Digitrax decoder has really good short protection for this kind of short?

In my Loksound (non-drop-in) install, I tediously wrapped some Kapton tape around the truck contact strips where the motor contacts come up. I know Peteski hates this method, and it's probably not the most bullet-proof way to go, but it seems to be working for the time being (although I suppose the tape could wear or tear on the contact strip edges over time). I also found the contact strips are hard to re-seat with too much Kapton tape wrapped around them, so I went with one wrap only....which I surmise makes the wear/tear issue more of a possibility. I haven't yet come up with a better barrier between these contacts. Has anyone else?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 12:20:53 AM by tehachapifan »

eja

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +70
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2018, 01:28:18 AM »
0
OK,


I'll start buy checking the alignment  of the contact strips.....

.... but I can't see them when the shell is on !


 Sadly this is going to have to wait a while as we are about to do the over the river and through the woods to the grand-kids house we go thing.  At least I have an idea of where to start looking when we return. 

Thanks guys.

Happy Holidays to all.

Ed

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 18302
  • Has a degree in American History & Culture.
  • Respect: +2429
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2018, 09:35:03 AM »
+1
My F40 is a frequent pain. It's usually rock solid but every once in a while things get loose with that stupid "tab" and it's a B to fix.

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2253
  • Respect: +299
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2018, 09:36:49 AM »
0
...I tediously wrapped some Kapton tape around the truck contact strips where the motor contacts come up. I know Peteski hates this method, and it's probably not the most bullet-proof way to go, but it seems to be working for the time being (although I suppose the tape could wear or tear on the contact strip edges over time). I also found the contact strips are hard to re-seat with too much Kapton tape wrapped around them, so I went with one wrap only....

This is what TCS says in their installation instructions to insulate the pickup contact strips.

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2253
  • Respect: +299
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2018, 09:38:01 AM »
0
My F40 is a frequent pain. It's usually rock solid but every once in a while things get loose with that stupid "tab" and it's a B to fix.

Solder the motor tabs.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 18302
  • Has a degree in American History & Culture.
  • Respect: +2429
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2018, 07:52:33 PM »
0
Solder the motor tabs.

Oh I wish that were the only issue. It's that the hole that the stupid plug thing fits into is all chowdered up, so sometimes it all just comes loose.

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2253
  • Respect: +299
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2018, 10:33:08 PM »
0
Just did an E8 for a club member and no soldering needed on the motor tabs.  My F7A/B done 10 years ago, still running fine, didn't need soldering.  But my Operation North Pole done last year required soldering from the get go.

Go figure!

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 8656
  • Gender: Male
  • "I like trains!"
  • Respect: +2073
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2018, 11:00:58 PM »
0
I bought the 2017 Operation North Pole for my daughter, so I need to install the decoders in the F40PH and the cab car by Christmas Eve when Santa is supposed to deliver the train.  Looking forward to it (he said sarcastically).

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
A Proud HOer

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2253
  • Respect: +299
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2018, 08:21:00 AM »
+1
Dave,

Spend the extra $10 and get the TCS version of the decoder for this loco.  It has reversing marker lights for the loco when direction is changed for running cab forward.  Digitrax's version doesn't have this.  You need to do some minor board filing to narrow one end and modify two CVs.  Installation steps are the same as Digitrax.

http://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/kato-f40ph-operation-north-pole/k5d7

From memory, TCS, added red LED(s) on the underside of the board to light the reverse marker light pipe(s).  The top has the headlight LEDs.

Most of my fleet is Digitrax but for this one, I got the TCS version.  Well worth it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 08:24:31 AM by MK »

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 8656
  • Gender: Male
  • "I like trains!"
  • Respect: +2073
Re: Help Kato F40PH problem - Scale
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 11:53:42 AM »
0
Dave,

Spend the extra $10 and get the TCS version of the decoder for this loco.  It has reversing marker lights for the loco when direction is changed for running cab forward.  Digitrax's version doesn't have this.  You need to do some minor board filing to narrow one end and modify two CVs.  Installation steps are the same as Digitrax.

http://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/kato-f40ph-operation-north-pole/k5d7

From memory, TCS, added red LED(s) on the underside of the board to light the reverse marker light pipe(s).  The top has the headlight LEDs.

Most of my fleet is Digitrax but for this one, I got the TCS version.  Well worth it.

Thanks.  I already did, and it's standing by for installation.  I used the TCS decoder in my daughter's first F40PH, too, which is still working well to this day.

The decoder in the cab car, though?  Not so much.  That thing works on its own schedule.  :x  Thankfully, my daughter doesn't know any better what the lights on the cab car are supposed to do in forward and reverse . . . until we put the new cab car on the tracks.  :facepalm:  I may end up having to finagle that decoder's connections and replace it, if necessary.

DFF

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
A Proud HOer