Author Topic: TurboTrain help...  (Read 4549 times)

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Sokramiketes

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2016, 08:43:52 AM »
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I wouldn't be asking for advice if the designs were already finished.

The big difference between the Turbo and the Aerotrain, as someone mentioned, is that the single axles are articulated. They are centred between the cars and as such they need to swivel. Our current design has a neat centering spring.

So what I am hearing is that pickup from every axle is really important. But it looks like we'll be blazing a new trail for this.

-Jason

Why can't they remain fixed to one car, and the trailing car allowed to pivot?  I understand on tight curves it won't look as good visually, but the only thing that really needs to pivot is the car connections, not the single axle at the joint.
Mike

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Philip H

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2016, 09:23:12 AM »
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@rapidotrains - I have an add on car for the electrotren talgo set. It doesn't have wipers or pickups so it's not electrified. I will try to post pictures later today of the truck assembly.
Philip H.
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up1950s

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2016, 11:10:02 AM »
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Interior lighting would best work with batteries and the magnetic reed switch wand gizmo .

Head lights and markers as well as power is the problem .

Wipers cause drag but it can swivel if the wipers have 4 wires / 2 paired plugs for fore and aft feed .

The cone method is the same as above but maybe with a bit less friction .

I don't see any other options .

rapidotrains

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2016, 02:30:02 PM »
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Thanks for your continued feedback!

Picking up power is proving to be not so difficult. It's transferring power reliably to adjacent cars above a sprung, articulated truck that is our challenge. The coupling mechanism has to be robust enough to withstand a considerable amount of abuse. Having super fine multi-pin plugs between cars would not pass the oaf test unless we can devise a way of connecting them more automatically.

Again, if it weren't for the articulated single axle truck, this would be a non-issue. Our N gauge Pendolino transfers power between cars very reliably.

While there are some areas I am willing to compromise, I really don't like the idea of a solid truck fixed to one car. Bachmann did that on their TurboTrain in 1969. Almost 50 years later, ours should be better.

-Jason

peteski

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2016, 04:41:03 PM »
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Thanks for your continued feedback!

Picking up power is proving to be not so difficult. It's transferring power reliably to adjacent cars above a sprung, articulated truck that is our challenge. The coupling mechanism has to be robust enough to withstand a considerable amount of abuse. Having super fine multi-pin plugs between cars would not pass the oaf test unless we can devise a way of connecting them more automatically.

Again, if it weren't for the articulated single axle truck, this would be a non-issue. Our N gauge Pendolino transfers power between cars very reliably.

While there are some areas I am willing to compromise, I really don't like the idea of a solid truck fixed to one car. Bachmann did that on their TurboTrain in 1969. Almost 50 years later, ours should be better.

-Jason

Will this model be sold as a permanently coupled string of cars or will each car or section of cars have to be individually coupled to the rest before running it?

If it is a permanently coupled set then just hardwire all the cars together.  If it has to come apart then use some sort of wire harness and a connector between the cars or sections of cars.  While not the most user-friendly, it works well. That is what COn-Cor did on their Aerotrain, Zephyr, and M-10000.

As far as clumsy Oafs go - they are not allowed to play with N scale trains!   :D

I was actually thinking of embedding male/female connectors in the Aerotrain diaphragms.  They are already held together by magnets so having a connector also make the electrical connection would work well. But they put the magnets right in the center of the end of the diaphragm (exactly where I would like to install the connector). I would have put the connector in the center and the magnets closer to the outside edges.  I abandoned this modification is it was too  much effort to put into a set which I pretty much keep always coupled together anyway.

If you were planning on selling this set unassembled how about just making it permanently coupled (and hardwired). Just sell it in a long box!  :D  I think that would also be welcomed by those Oafs out there who like tiny trains. Besides it will be much easier to put on the track if it is permanently coupled (this is important for people like me who run their trains on NTRAK layouts for a day or two then put them back in the box until the next show).

I own several articulated N scale model trains which are permanently coupled and are packaged in long skinny boxes.  That is a 12" ruler for size reference.
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davefoxx

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2016, 04:44:04 PM »
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Thanks for your continued feedback!

Picking up power is proving to be not so difficult. It's transferring power reliably to adjacent cars above a sprung, articulated truck that is our challenge. The coupling mechanism has to be robust enough to withstand a considerable amount of abuse. Having super fine multi-pin plugs between cars would not pass the oaf test unless we can devise a way of connecting them more automatically

Can you try something along the technology of those magnetic chargers that you see for cell phones nowadays?  For example:
https://www.amazon.com/NetDot-Generation-Magnetic-Charger-Adapter/dp/B019MZKHO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482270014&sr=8-1&keywords=magnetic+phone+charger

While there are some areas I am willing to compromise, I really don't like the idea of a solid truck fixed to one car. Bachmann did that on their TurboTrain in 1969. Almost 50 years later, ours should be better.

Not to mention that a fixed truck would likely kill the minimum radius that the train could negotiate.

DFF

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peteski

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2016, 04:53:21 PM »
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Can you try something along the technology of those magnetic chargers that you see for cell phones nowadays?  For example:
https://www.amazon.com/NetDot-Generation-Magnetic-Charger-Adapter/dp/B019MZKHO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482270014&sr=8-1&keywords=magnetic+phone+charger

Not to mention that a fixed truck would likely kill the minimum radius that the train could negotiate.

DFF

Funny that you mentoned that - the induction (wireless) charging was just brought up in this thread few days back.  It is not quite compact or inexpensive enough for installing in in several places in N scale train.

As far the fix truck, small radius would not be a problem. Remember, it is a single axle.  Turbo train cars are fairly short. If you look at most European freight cars, they use fixed single-axle wheelset on each end off the car and they can negotiate curves sharper than most North American modelers are willing to use on their layouts.

I really need to find a diagram of Rapido's H0 scale Turbo train to see how they handled all those issues and why they aren't just re-using those designs in N scale.
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Philip H

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2016, 08:09:40 PM »
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So here are some cellphone pics of the Electrotren Talgo. It's definitely NOT lighted, but perhaps something isn't the mounding of the truck and attached "diaphragm" will spur an idea or three:

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Philip H.
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Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.

"Yes there are somethings that are "off;" but hey, so what." ~ Wyatt

"I'm trying to have less cranial rectal inversion with this." - Ed K.

"There's more to MRR life than the Wheezy & Nowheresville." C855B

learmoia

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2016, 08:47:53 PM »
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It's transferring power reliably to adjacent cars above a sprung, articulated truck that is our challenge. The coupling mechanism has to be robust enough to withstand a considerable amount of abuse. Having super fine multi-pin plugs between cars would not pass the oaf test unless we can devise a way of connecting them more automatically.
-Jason

Have looked at how MTH does the Proto 3 connection between Steam Locomotive Tender..

PC board drawbar using a male/female pin connector (vertically).. along with a pin/hole connection for the force of the pull.

What if the wheel was mounted on a PC board... with a connector on each end (for each car).. opposite connector is mounted on  the ends of each car... you could go 2-4-6 pin connector and pass as many wires as you want between cars.. and use the PC board to pickup the power from the wheelset.

Inside the car, Mount the receiving PC board on a pivot with a bit of wiggle room for turns..

Simple to connect cars.. a 4 or 6 wire connector may be robust enough to handle the force of the turbo train.

Just a thought... ~Ian

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rapidotrains

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2016, 04:42:32 PM »
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If you were planning on selling this set unassembled how about just making it permanently coupled (and hardwired). Just sell it in a long box!  :D  I think that would also be welcomed by those Oafs out there who like tiny trains. Besides it will be much easier to put on the track if it is permanently coupled (this is important for people like me who run their trains on NTRAK layouts for a day or two then put them back in the box until the next show).

I own several articulated N scale model trains which are permanently coupled and are packaged in long skinny boxes.  That is a 12" ruler for size reference.
(Attachment Link)

If we could sell it in a long box like that it would solve a lot of problems. But I think the risk of damage would be huge.

A five-car Amtrak Turbo would need a box more than two feet long. We could split the nine-car VIA/CN sets in two to fit the same length box.

What is your experience with damage to long N scale boxes?

-Jason

peteski

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2016, 05:35:07 PM »
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If we could sell it in a long box like that it would solve a lot of problems. But I think the risk of damage would be huge.

A five-car Amtrak Turbo would need a box more than two feet long. We could split the nine-car VIA/CN sets in two to fit the same length box.

What is your experience with damage to long N scale boxes?

-Jason

No problems or damage with any of the long boxes I have (few more in addition to the ones in the photo I posted).

The Kruckenberg set (the skinniest box) is only couple of years old. It has a Styrofoam cradle holding a cardboard sleeve in which the train sits.

The PIKO double-decker and the Arnold reefer sets are cradled in a vacu-formed styrene nests.  Those survived intact from the 1970s to today (and a trip from Germany to USA).

But I'm not in the retail business so I don't know the percentage of damaged boxes from any of those production runs.
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John

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2016, 05:54:42 PM »
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If we could sell it in a long box like that it would solve a lot of problems. But I think the risk of damage would be huge.

A five-car Amtrak Turbo would need a box more than two feet long. We could split the nine-car VIA/CN sets in two to fit the same length box.

What is your experience with damage to long N scale boxes?

-Jason

Deluxe Inovations might be a good source for that info . they sold their husky stack cars in long boxes .. I have one but never had any issues ..

Mr Z

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2016, 07:14:55 PM »
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Can you do the electrical connections similar to how Apple handles their power adapters on their laptops? Magnets hold the connector In place but easily give way when pulled apart deliberately or accidentally.

Martin Z

up1950s

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2016, 11:41:46 PM »
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Be the first to think outside the box and sell it in a 3" mailing tube with a cylindrical foam insert .

peteski

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Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2016, 11:55:18 PM »
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Be the first to think outside the box and sell it in a 3" mailing tube with a cylindrical foam insert .


+1
:D
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