Author Topic: TurboTrain help...  (Read 4519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rapidotrains

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 217
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +238
TurboTrain help...
« on: December 15, 2016, 01:10:29 PM »
+5
Hi guys,

The factory is facing some challenges with the TurboTrain power pickup.

Has any manufacturer made a single-axle truck with power pickups in N scale? If so, we'd like to see what they did.

We're finding every possible solution we can think of to add power pickups to the single-axle trucks will add so much drag to the wheels that the Power Dome Cars will not be able to pull the train. The other option is just to use the eight powered wheels (four under each PDC) to pick up power and install a capacitor to handle dirty track, but that means the train will not have interior lighting. We are still including full interiors whether we have lighting or not.

The windows are extremely tinted so interior lighting may not be so important to you.

I'd like to get a feel for what you guys feel is more important. If interior lighting is a "must have" then the train becomes very complicated and may have trouble on some grades. It also will add a big chunk to the retail price.

If 100% reliable operation and more affordable price are more important, then I think we cancel the interior lighting and leave it to the kitbashers to "roll their own."

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jason
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 03:15:31 AM by GaryHinshaw »

sirenwerks

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5185
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +142
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 01:41:18 PM »
+3
No solution for you but I can't tell you how refreshing it is for a company to reach out to end users to solve such a problem.  I wish more manufacturers were like Rapido.
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20291
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1769
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 01:47:09 PM »
+5
Yes, Con-Cor Aerotrain has single-axle trucks picking up power.  They use similar method to the standard Kato pickup system. Half-axles with pointy ends riding in metal-cup end bearings. Very free rolling and reliable power pickup.  I have to dig up the photos. I'll post them here soon.  Please don't go with the old-school wipers rubbing against back of the wheel, tread, or flanges. we are in the 21st Century now - those are so 1970s!

EDIT:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

In Con-Cor's case they actually made the wheel/half-axle as a single metal truning (Kato makes the wheel and half-axle as separate pieces).

As shown, the single-axle truck swivels in the center (but only a very small amount). To me that is an unnecessary feature - I pushed the kingpin in tightly so the truck no longer swivels.  In this example the cars are so short that there is no need for swiveling truck. Most European 2-axle freight cars are fairly short (like Aerotrain), have fixed axles and they work just fine,even on 7" curves.  In Con-Cor's model the swiveling (along with using wires for conducting power from the bearing plates to the model), not being perfectly free to swivel, could cause the truck to crab slightly - not a desired thing - that is why I made the trucks stationary.

The bearing plates have an eyelet on top where the wire is soldered. They are also glued into the plastic sideframes. If you want I could take the truck apart and take some more photos of the end plates.

I can live without interior lighting as I can easily roll my own. Con-Cor did include the lighting in the Zephyr and Aerotrain,  but IMO poorly done.  But using the above pickup system will make the Aerotrain free-rolling and reliable (assume you electrically interconnect the cars.   You mentioned using capacitors - that implies a DCC-only version as there is no good way to add keep-alive caps in DC models.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 02:12:59 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7000
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +987
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 01:49:02 PM »
+2
Agreed.  The tried-and-true Kato pickup system will function independent of the number of axles on the truck.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


Point353

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1535
  • Respect: +279
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2016, 01:57:09 PM »
0
I don't run my trains in the dark, so a lack of interior lighting is acceptable, to me.
IMO, the key lighting feature is the oscillating head and tail lights.

One other issue regarding power pickup for car lighting is that the single wheelsets are between the cars rather than directly under them. Thus, there also needs to be some method to transfer the power from the wheels/trucks/pickups into the cars.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20291
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1769
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 02:12:09 PM »
0
In case it was missed, I added photos to my earlier post.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

delamaize

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2049
  • Gender: Male
  • Prairie Line Native
  • Respect: +147
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 02:43:59 PM »
+1
I was going to post exactly what Pete posted.

Do that. It works well.
Mike

Northern Pacific, Tacoma Division, 4th subdivision "The Prarie Line" (still in planning stages)

eric220

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3398
  • Gender: Male
  • Continuing my abomination unto history
  • Respect: +374
    • The Modern PRR
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 02:45:49 PM »
0
I presume there's going to be some form of drawbar connection between the cars rather than normal couplers. Would it be possible to pass power from car to car through that connection?
-Eric

Modeling a transcontinental PRR
http://www.pennsylvania-railroad.com

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10689
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 03:01:40 PM »
0
Just offer the little battery thingie you did in the CSX office car as an add on .. I never use lights .. so not important for me ..

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
  • Respect: +2429
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 03:01:45 PM »
0
I'm guessing it is too late to re-design. They want to know what to do with what they have.

keeper

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 446
  • Gitchi-Gumi Railroad
  • Respect: +20
    • My ferry website
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 03:05:27 PM »
0
I presume there's going to be some form of drawbar connection between the cars rather than normal couplers. Would it be possible to pass power from car to car through that connection?

Should be. If I remember correctly, Minitrix did that years ago with their ICE.

Thomas
Ageing is inevitable - maturity is optional.

My ferry website: http://www.shipping-info.net

eric220

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3398
  • Gender: Male
  • Continuing my abomination unto history
  • Respect: +374
    • The Modern PRR
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 03:13:59 PM »
0
The Kato mikado also uses a drawbar that passes power between the tender and engine. It's technically possible, but I was more curious if it would be a viable option given the existing design work. Such a power pickup scheme would have the advantage of electrically connecting the pickups at both ends of the train, which should increase pickup reliability.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 03:18:07 PM by eric220 »
-Eric

Modeling a transcontinental PRR
http://www.pennsylvania-railroad.com

rapidotrains

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 217
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +238
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 03:34:41 PM »
0
I'm guessing it is too late to re-design. They want to know what to do with what they have.

I wouldn't be asking for advice if the designs were already finished.

The big difference between the Turbo and the Aerotrain, as someone mentioned, is that the single axles are articulated. They are centred between the cars and as such they need to swivel. Our current design has a neat centering spring.

So what I am hearing is that pickup from every axle is really important. But it looks like we'll be blazing a new trail for this.

-Jason

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20291
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1769
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 04:18:22 PM »
0
It is really nice to see a model manufacturer reaching out to the modellign community with design questions.

 I do hope that you end up incorporating a low-friction electric pickup on all the wheelsets. This is extremely important in N scale (more so than with larger scales).  Spreading te pickup over the entire length of the train will make it very reliable and the Con-Cor Aerotrain one is IMO a winner.  It required some tweaking (as executed by Con-Cor factory) but the design seems sound to me.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

Englewood

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +51
Re: TurboTrain help...
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 06:07:35 PM »
0
Cancel the interior lighting. If a train doesn't run well it doesn't matter what trailblazing features it has.