NKP-ish

[peteski]

Ernie Poole made the links.  I'm pretty sure is was just a plain (and stiff) music wire. I have to ask him and see if he remembers.  I suspect he just vertically clamped something like a drill bit in a vise and then looped the music wire around it.  I'll be visiting him on Sunday and we can peek under the layout and check the size of the music wire.  It is probably 0.020" or 0.032".

[LKOrailroad]

Hammer a nail into a 2x4. Vise grip the wire to the nail. Bend wire around nail with pliers. Cut off excess wire loop "tail". I like to use lithium grease filled brass tube for the wire guide.

[Lemosteam]

Try to find somehting like this for bending loops. it can be very handy for bending wire for grabs etc, and there are smaller diameter versions too:



https://jetsinc.com/pliers-cutters-and-shears/pliers/specialty-pliers/jewelry-acculoop-pliers-2mm-to-8mm-precision-round-nose-wire-looping-wrapping/?srsltid=AYCX9vIwHwZ_7dhfKSiLoFajg96BwAPEF4E-FodDYrwGcpvS8Gq0ZDXpGKk

[nickelplate759]

Try to find somehting like this for bending loops. it can be very handy for bending wire for grabs etc, and there are smaller diameter versions too:



https://jetsinc.com/pliers-cutters-and-shears/pliers/specialty-pliers/jewelry-acculoop-pliers-2mm-to-8mm-precision-round-nose-wire-looping-wrapping/?srsltid=AYCX9vIwHwZ_7dhfKSiLoFajg96BwAPEF4E-FodDYrwGcpvS8Gq0ZDXpGKk

Those pliers are great for brass and bronze, but the issue I'm having with the .035" steel music wire is leverage.   The nail and vise suggestion has promise.

[robert3985]

Those pliers are great for brass and bronze, but the issue I'm having with the .035" steel music wire is leverage.   The nail and vise suggestion has promise.

Any particular reason that you're using steel piano wire and not much more workable brass or bronze wire?  That would seem to be an easy solution to the problem.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[dem34]

Any particular reason that you're using steel piano wire and not much more workable brass or bronze wire?  That would seem to be an easy solution to the problem.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Retains shape over time better, brass and bronze will slowly deform with use.

[nickelplate759]

A little more progress laying the mainline.

Using 1/4" masking tape (5 layers with 1.25" offset between each layer) for superelevation.  It's subtle but noticeable.



Goal was to have a complete mainline by Thanksgiving but I don't think I'll make it.  Need more turnouts!

[robert3985]

Retains shape over time better, brass and bronze will slowly deform with use.

Steel also deforms and fatigues after use...a LOT of use.  However, with the minuscule forces employed by a Tortoise switch machine, I highly doubt in your application that you would ever notice any performance-interfering deformation using brass instead of steel.  In fact, as a mechanical designer and machinist/toolmaker since my early teens, I would be so bold to suggest you will NEVER notice a performance lessening using brass instead of steel piano wire...just a lot easier fabrication over unnecessarily difficult fabrication.

But, if you're set on using a difficult material to compensate for possible wear and metal fatigue (that won't happen in your lifetime) GOOD LUCK!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

I think that Ernie Poole used music wire for those linkages because that is also the rod/wire included with Tortoises.  I do agree with Bob that same (or slightly larger) diameter brass  rod would work just as well for throwing N scale switch points. In Ernie's example he uses the steel rod to throw Peco switch with the over the center spring still installed. He wanted to make sure the rod was stiff enough to positively throw the switch.

[robert3985]

I think that Ernie Poole used music wire for those linkages because that is also the rod/wire included with Tortoises.  I do agree with Bob that same (or slightly larger) diameter brass  rod would work just as well for throwing N scale switch points. In Ernie's example he uses the steel rod to throw Peco switch with the over the center spring still installed. He wanted to make sure the rod was stiff enough to positively throw the switch.

I use music (piano) wire for my simple Tortoise linkages also.  But, I don't put a loop in 'em.  I cut 0.050" piano wire to the length I want, then grind down the ends for about 3/8" to 0.020" to fit the same size hole in my PCB throwbar on my hand-laid turnouts, which aren't floppy loose and require a fairly sturdy, yet somewhat springy wire so as not to break my solder joints at the turnout point rail toes.

The wire that's supplied with Tortoises isn't sturdy enough to mount to the Tortoise, go through 1" of splined Masonite subroadbed then another fraction of an inch through cork roadbed, and finally into the PCB throwbar.

Recently, to speed things up, I've been using 1/16" brass tubing and soldering pieces of the supplied Tortoise wire to either end and enlarging the fulcrum hole also to 1/16", then bending the tubing to its correct profile.  This works well and saves me a lot of time instead of precision grinding a piece of piano wire and having to measure with my calipers and dunk the hot tip in my bench grinder stand's water cup multiple times to keep from burning my tender and sensitive finger tips. 

The tubing gives me the stiffness I need and a length of the supplied Tortoise wire gives me the springiness I want to keep from damaging my PCB throwbars/point rail assembly.

However, I have NEVER yet felt the need to put a loop in any of these Tortoise wires, even with some fairly complicated linkages.  If I did, I wouldn't use thick steel springy piano wire.

What I HAVE used are RC linkages on a couple of my recent turnout locations where my benchwork gets in the way of a simple Tortoise installation...and that solution has worked very well, also allowing me to adjust lengths of the linkage pieces for more precise motion.

After looking at the example photo that Peter @peteski sent, I would suggest using a 1/16" diameter piece of brass tubing instead of the piano wire, drilling a clearance hole (actually two holes completely through the tubing wall) in the end where the thicker than what's provided Tortoise wire goes through, drilling a tight fitting hole (actually two holes) completely through the tubing wall of the 1/16" tubing on the other end, bending an appropriate length of the provided in-the-box Tortoise wire into an "L" shape, insert the long vertical part of the "L" through the two holes in the tubing, with the shorter base of the "L" bearing on the lower outer tubing surface (maybe securing it with a couple of short lengths of 22AWG or smaller copper wire twisted tightly to hold it in place before and during soldering) and then soldering the "L" shaped wire to the tubing, both in both holes where the long leg is going upward towards the throwbar and where it's bearing on the bottom of the tubing, soldering the copper securing wire at the same time.

That should do the same trick as the piano wire, but be much more precise, and actually easier to make since no loops are required to be made in the difficult-to-bend steel wire.

Supporting the brass tube would be essentially the same as supporting the piano wire, and could be done with the next size up aluminum tubing, since there wouldn't be any chance of galling by using dissimilar metals, with a little squirt of graphite as a good dry lubricant.

Anyway, good luck to the OP.


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nickelplate759]

I like the tubing idea @robert3985 .  My give it a try

[peteski]

Just to follow up on my promise, after visiting Ernie Poole last Sunday, the music wire for the linkages is 0.032".  As for making loops, he is pretty sure he just used regular needle nose pliers (or maybe 2 pairs of pliers). Why he used the materials he used was because that is what he had on-hand at the moment. He didn't put much planning into this - just did what he had to to make things work. As for not remembering specific details, he did this 30+ years ago.   

Like Bob mentioned, there isn't really a lot of stress on these components so brass should certainly do the trick. As for using RC aircraft model parts we did use IIRC what's called Gold Rods (a flexible thin steel cable in a plastic sleeve) to throw switches on a NTRAK yard module.

[Stolen Moment]

Indeed, Ernie also does RC aircraft, so he would have necessary parts and tools at hand, and certainly the expertise to use them.

Lots of really handy linkage parts in those catalogs!

[nickelplate759]

Today I was adding track feeders and connecting them to the DCC bus.   Everything went fine until I powered on the DCC  and one of my PSXX started shrieking (glad I added the shrieker https://tonystrains.com/product/dcc-specialties-sonalert-for-psxx-circuit-breakers to them!).       Spent the next 30 minutes checking all my new feeders (yes, they're color coded) and the frog polarity on all the Tortoises I wired up.   Was feeling pretty frustrated when I found this:



It's a piece of .032" steel wire that decided to take a nap across the tracks   

All better now.