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Author Topic: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways  (Read 3568 times)

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towl1996

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PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« on: December 14, 2015, 04:05:56 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 08:00:12 PM by GaryHinshaw »
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chicken45

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 01:37:44 PM »
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I wonder how the resolution is on it. Even with FXD you need to sand the lines out.
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Josh Surkosky

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Dave V

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 01:43:08 PM »
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One of the benefits of the somewhat oversized pewter GHQ L1 boiler was the massive weight...add that to a traction-tired Kato 2-8-2 and you could pull stumps.  With a Shapeways shell you're back to the as-is pulling power of the Kato Mike.

It is great to see more options for PRR steam, though!
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Lemosteam

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 01:55:58 PM »
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Quote from: chicken45 on December 17, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
I wonder how the resolution is on it. Even with FXD you need to sand the lines out.

This is the reason my models are being offered as kits- to allow owners the ability to sand surfaces without fear or damaging anything in the process.  Personally things look better with added premium details, IMHO.
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John "Lemosteam" LeMerise

chicken45

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2015, 10:45:08 AM »
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Quote from: Dave Vollmer on December 17, 2015, 01:43:08 PM
One of the benefits of the somewhat oversized pewter GHQ L1 boiler was the massive weight...add that to a traction-tired Kato 2-8-2 and you could pull stumps.  With a Shapeways shell you're back to the as-is pulling power of the Kato Mike.

It is great to see more options for PRR steam, though!

Wasn't this disproved by @mmagliaro  or @Lemosteam ? I seem to remember someone saying that the traction tire is what made the biggest difference and actually, surprisingly, not the weight.
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Josh Surkosky

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Dave V

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 10:47:56 AM »
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If it was, I missed it.  I went stock without traction tire to GHQ to traction tire, so I don't think I ever really got a feel for the performance of the stock with a traction tire.

If Max says it's true, I believe it.  That's good news then for anyone wanting a closer-to-scale boiler for their Kato conversion.
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Lemosteam

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 11:10:31 AM »
+1
Max and I are at odds on this one, I have a single sample video that I think demonstrates the difference, unscientific of course, but convincing to me anyways.

Even so, it is still difficult for me to believe all that weight just doesn't make that much difference but then there's this:

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John "Lemosteam" LeMerise

towl1996

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 11:31:43 AM »
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I missed that video also, but WOW, I would not have thought that at all. Thanks @Lemosteam. This makes that shapeways shell even more interesting, especially, if the boiler is dimensionally correct. Hmm....
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mmagliaro

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2015, 07:02:38 AM »
+1
I really think it's just a matter of friction AND weight.
With no TT, the stock Mikado and the GHQ one pull 0.5 to 0.7 oz.

Adding the TT, the stock Mikado pull jumps to 2.2 oz
On the GHQ, adding the TT jumps the pull to 2.8 oz.

How much pull you get by adding weight is a function of the coefficient of friction at the wheels.
It's simply that the stock Mikado is so slippery that adding a lot of weight doesn't help
until you add the TT.    GHQ + TT = 2.8 oz, and stock +TT = 2.2 oz, so the GHQ boiler got you a 27% boost in pull.

Where did the "Big" jump come from?   Obviously the tire.  It got you from 0.5 or 0.7 to 2.2, a 300 - 400% increase!
So it's certainly true that adding weight makes a difference, but again, the weight only helps if there is friction on the wheels (a TT),
and it doesn't get anywhere near the gain of adding that tire.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a complicated subject.  It matters where  the weight is, how well the engine is balanced,
how springy the drivers are.  A lot of factors come into play here.
On the NP W-5 GHQ Mikado I build recently, I found that adding just 2 gm of weight in the right place made the difference between
it pulling 10 more cars up a grade or slipping out.  It's amazing how important balance is.
BTW, that Mikado pulled 65 cars up a 1.7% grade.  Yes, it had a tire, but no way could it have done that without adding weight.
It pulled about 30 up the grade with the GHQ boiler alone before I started adding lots of tungsten in there.
I have no idea what it's limit on a flat would be.  My layout isn't big enough to try it.  65 cars was already getting pretty dicey around all the curves.  I was expecting it to "clothes line" any minute.






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Lemosteam

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2015, 10:51:49 AM »
+1
Agree Max, that is my point- that the increase in weight is minimal in comparison to the TT.  That is all I've ever argued.

I never contended that the added mass didn't contribute, just not nearly as much as I would have expected.

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John "Lemosteam" LeMerise

chicken45

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2015, 06:03:27 PM »
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Great stuff, guys!
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Josh Surkosky

Here's a Clerihew about Ed. K.

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But mention his law
and you've pulled your last straw!

Alternate version:
Ed Kapucinski
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He asks excitedly "Did you say Ménage à Trois?"
No, I said "Ed's Law."

tony22

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 10:10:22 AM »
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Is this the same one?

http://www.shapeways.com/product/MAS2SW4NK/n-scale-prr-l1-shell-for-kato-mikado-mechanism?li=marketplace&optionId=58367928

That's weird. When I first clicked on the link in the first post the price was about $54. Now when I click on the first link it's $34 (which is what I posted in this message).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 10:12:30 AM by tony22 »
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reinhardtjh

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2016, 10:42:02 AM »
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Same one.  Using FUD it's $34.36.  In FXD it's $54.67
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John H. Reinhardt
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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2016, 12:00:06 PM »
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Quote
That's weird. When I first clicked on the link in the first post the price was about $54. Now when I click on the first link it's $34 (which is what I posted in this message).

The difference in price is for FUD vs. FXD.  FXD is a finer detailed print, which, accordingly, costs more.
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tony22

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Re: PRR L1 shell at Shapeways
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2016, 09:19:37 PM »
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Sheesh! I didn't realize that when I ordered! I ordered the wrong one! :facepalm: Now I can't seem to find the right page for the finer detailed shell.
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