N-Scale - What is the average mind set?

[MichaelWinicki]

For me I don't pay as much attention to the super-detailing of rolling stock and locomotives.

Now the "stuff" around the rolling stock and locomotives... Yeah.

Trees, grass, fences, wired telegraph poles... other items that make the scene "real". 

[jlong]

I agree that with N scale, the focus is more on the scene than the scale fidelity of the inividual models and the 3ft rule applies here. I like to think of N scale to be like looking down at a train from airplane because I fly a lot and that's just what real trains look like from a plane...N or Z scale trains. O or G scale trains on the other hand are like watching real trains from a grade crossing up close and personal. Scale fidelity is much more noticed with trains this size.

What really revolutized N scale as far as scale fidelity is concerned is CNC digital tooling which makes microscopic accuracy possible where it was impossible when tooling was formed by hand. For much cheaper than hand tooled too. The process pretty much killed the market for brass.

[Loren Perry]

Yesterday I took a close-up detail photo of an N-scale pick-up truck for an article I was writing. When I put it up on the monitor, a single fine hair appeared draped across the cab spoiling the shot. When I went back to reshoot the scene, I tried to find the offending filament using my Optivisors but simply couldn't see it. I returned to the computer to look at the image on the monitor to see exactly where it was and then used that info to use tweezers to feel for it and grab it. It worked. I held it up to the light - it was extremely fine but it was still picked up my the camera.

The point here is to emphasize my original point - photographing N-scale models up close requires some attention to detail, super or otherwise. If the object is to come as close as reasonably possible to the prototype, superdetailing is needed, even if only slightly.

Almost all of us on this site photograph our models and many of us actually post them here on this website. That makes a lot of us candidates for superdetailing if we want anyone to notice our work. Posting a photo of an out-of-the-box model is little more than advertising a manufacturer's product. It just doesn't show your own work because you didn't do anything to the model. It's all the manufacturer's work.

Micro-Trains, the newer Atlas, and Athearn freight and passenger cars are superb models out of the box. All the really need is weathering. Anything else is gravy.

Bachmann, Athearn, and some of the newer Model Power steam locos are also fine looking models out of the box, and nearly all diesel models these day are the same.

The term "superdetailing" may also include modifying a model to more closely represent a specific prototype. Some of these changes are substantial, others not so much.

Also, just the addition of set of a set of windshield wipers or sunshades on an F-unit's cab makes the model look superdetailed when it's really not.

[6axlepwr]

You all are great. Thank you. You have given me a pretty good perspective of what my question was and the variety of answers has shown some new light on my n-scale modeling. I never really intended to fully come back to N-scale, but my latest project has ballooned into a multi headed monster and is quite fun. SO I will move onto a new thread about modeling instead of pontificating  .

My ICG units did not sell. Guess I will keep them and maybe use them for trade foder. Maybe two for three. I need some more Kato SD40's with high mount brakes. Like at least three more  .

Brian

[robert3985]

I agree that with N scale, the focus is more on the scene than the scale fidelity of the inividual models and the 3ft rule applies here.

The "3ft rule" is a crock.  Try putting your engines and cars on the rails from three feet away, then tell me how valid it is.

The point here is to emphasize my original point - photographing N-scale models up close requires some attention to detail, super or otherwise. If the object is to come as close as reasonably possible to the prototype, superdetailing is needed, even if only slightly.

Almost all of us on this site photograph our models and many of us actually post them here on this website. That makes a lot of us candidates for superdetailing if we want anyone to notice our work. Posting a photo of an out-of-the-box model is little more than advertising a manufacturer's product. It just doesn't show your own work because you didn't do anything to the model. It's all the manufacturer's work.

The term "superdetailing" may also include modifying a model to more closely represent a specific prototype. Some of these changes are substantial, others not so much.

Also, just the addition of set of a set of windshield wipers or sunshades on an F-unit's cab makes the model look superdetailed when it's really not.

I agree with Loren, and I use many of his products in my superdetailing projects.  Hmmm...I'll post a photo that many of you have seen before...in it, I attempted to get rid of all the "N-scale markers" that automatically point to 1:160th scale.  I wanted to illustrate the difference between "N-gauge" and "N-scale".  Truthfully, the level of detail on these models is not all that great.  Separate grabs, custom paint (including painting details behind the F3's chicken wire), Z scale couplers, uncoupling lifts, a few details inside the cabs like visors, and Micro Engineering code 70 track, taking the time to get the color and texture of the ballast correct as well as painting and weathering the track...then taking a photo using pro 35mm equipment (Nikon body, Nikon Micro lens).  Oh...and a diode matrix for constant lighting....and a scratch built UP cantilever signal bridge. I would have added lines on the telegraph poles, but couldn't figure out how to get them to sag, so I left 'em off. I also modeled a prototype scene.  I took this photo in 1991, and N-scale details and fidelity have increased significantly in the intervening 22 years.



Loren's work is phenomenal as is the work of many other contributors on this board, who are cutting edge as far as detailing, prototype fidelity and artistic composition are concerned.  This is not the board to have many people actually believe there's such a thing as the "3ft rule"...which is just an excuse for modelers whose interests don't include detailing their trains, or their scenery.  Hey, if you don't want to do it, then that's great...but there's no "rule" that says you shouldn't add more details...it's just an attitude.

[OldEastRR]

when I say marketing, I don't mean just paid advertising; I also mean product placements (in mag articles), publicity (announcements of new products in places that matter), and developing product customers want (can anyone say CMW).

Though it seems to be a dirty word in the hobby nowadays I think having reviews of new items helps. The product announcements sail right past most of us; we might glance at the picture, see if its our scale, and if not, move on. Even if its our scale I doubt everybody reads every word of the press-release script.
But  with N scale it's hard to find reviews anymore. The big review mag has shifted to mostly HO stuff; the on-line mag refuses to do any reviews of anything; the little N mags don't run regular or any reviews either. MR's and RMC's reviews are viewed suspiciously as pro-advertiser and thus dismissed.
What's unfortunate is that now, with fewer and fewer places a modeler can go and actually see in person (or even handle) new railroad items, a mass media outlet may be the only way these people can "get to know" new products.
The forums are of uneven value, as you wind up with people who love the thing or hate it  with equal passion, and let you know all the (personal) reasons why. It may be interesting to see on a thread a brand-new loco completely broken down into component parts, but what does that tell the average modeler?
I'm not a big fan of the traditional long-winded review with the complete, dry-facts history and relevant era of the model. But I think a short, "let's look this thing over" version that has some photos and as much data on the model's features, construction, materials, workability, and other aspects, looked at as if the reader had the thing in his own hands. No judgment, no recommendation/dissing by the reviewer -- just thorough, detailed reporting.
The small cost of donating a model to some e-zine or mag to do a review would be more than offset by the publicity it would get.

[Denver Road Doug]

The "3ft rule" is a crock.

Ha, I think that should be one of The Railwire's taglines...   

[OldEastRR]

The two ICG SD40's I have on Ebay right now took me a week to finish. I'll see how they do and if they do not sell.

My experiences in selling on eBay is June through September is the worst time to try to sell model RR stuff. Either nobody bids, or if you start with low bids, they don't go very high. Of course with rare or hard-to-find stuff not as much of a problem.

[peteski]

I think that advertising (placing ads in the hobby-specific magazines) is so 1990s.  Notice how magazines like Model Railroader shrank in the number of pages from the 1990s to the present.  Large portion of what was chopped was the classifieds, but also all the ads in general.

In the 21st Century, big chunk of your advertizing has to be on the Interwebs! And an excellent way to advertize in the Web is through the (electronic) word of mouth.  And this kind of advertizing is free! Take the NZT products for example.  Their 3 latest products: School Bus, Cat Crawler and the PRR Bulk Containers, from what I saw, sold very well.  But AFAIK, NZT never even place ads in magazines for any of those products.  It seems that word of mouth was enough to spur the sales of all those products.  Model-related online forums and, even though I hate to say this,  Facebook and Twitter are great advertizing venues.

[OldEastRR]

I took this photo in 1991, and N-scale details and fidelity have increased significantly in the intervening 22 years.

It would be interesting to see this same scene done with all the current upgraded refinements in N. Can you do it?

[Loren Perry]

It would be interesting to see this same scene done with all the current upgraded refinements in N. Can you do it?

I seriously doubt Robert - or anyone else I can think of - can improve very much on that photograph. It and the models are all outstanding. No Photoshop, either.

Remember those wonderful days of 35mm film? Back then I never thought digital cameras would ever replace them, but I guess I'm glad now they did!

[Hyperion]

It would be interesting to see this same scene done with all the current upgraded refinements in N. Can you do it?

It'd look the same.  The only difference is that, equipment-wise, one may not have to put in quite as much work because the beginning model would be better.   

Even that I doubt would change much.  The "upgraded refinements" of out-of-the-box F-units pales compared to the models in that photo.  It may have been over 20 years, but it's not like we get new upgraded F-units every year to continuously improve upon the last.  I don't own any, not do I keep track of their development, but I would imagine there's been maybe a single generation of improvement in F-units in that time (I'm thinking of the Intermountains).

[Fliegerin]

Count me as one of those modelers who is happy just to repaint locos/cars and then weather them. I have no need for super detailing. I did super detail engines when I was in HO, but N scale is just too small to notice much of the added detail. At least, I think so.

Have to agree with this.  My cars/ engines do have details added if they are really noticeable. *IE need to alter/kitbash, add trainphone antennae, other major details, change trucks, add speedometer cables, etc*  With fine factory details and being picky about accuracy when buying models, one can typically get by with weathering to have a nice model.

[robert3985]

It would be interesting to see this same scene done with all the current upgraded refinements in N. Can you do it?

Coincidentally, I am in the process of re-doing this exact scene, along with the Devils Slide Station and siding...with the Ideal Concrete Plant and other 1950's details that I didn't know or care about when I built the first Wilhemina Pass.  It'll be done sometime early next year...with updated detailing on the bridge, Railcraft code 55 (yes, I said "Railcraft"...I have a big stash of it) and better telegraph poles with wires since I finally got around to taking a tape measure to the real ones.

Remember those wonderful days of 35mm film? Back then I never thought digital cameras would ever replace them, but I guess I'm glad now they did!

I remember when I'd have to wait a couple of days to know if my photos even turned out!  Hard to believe I used to see film usage as an expense and budget for it, since nowadays I can shoot all day and not worry about spending a penny.  Photography on film was an exercise in faith, with nowhere near the forgiveness of modern digital.  Although I loved Kodachrome and Fujichrome Velvia...I gotta say that my 16MP and 24MP Nikons beat 'em...by a long shot.

[robert3985]

I think that advertising (placing ads in the hobby-specific magazines) is so 1990s.

Their 3 latest products: School Bus, Cat Crawler and the PRR Bulk Containers, from what I saw, sold very well.  But AFAIK, NZT never even place ads in magazines for any of those products.  It seems that word of mouth was enough to spur the sales of all those products.

Don't forget that DKS and NZT make EXCELLENT products...which is a big factor in spurring sales, and word of mouth awareness.  Also, smart choices as to what products to produce also.  Sometimes, it doesn't make any difference how good the model is if it's not something the market wants.  DKS is aware enough of the market to offer excellent products at the right time and right price point.

Keep up the good work DKS...and I'm still waiting patiently for your couplers!