Model Power 4-6-2??

[CBQ Fan]

A few questions:

1) How do these run?  Are they any good?

2) Is it easy to convert the tender to a knuckle coupler? 

3) Which MT coupler is best?

[mmagliaro]

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/mp462.html
Spookshow's review looks very fair to me.

I own one of these.  It is going to be a kitbash project to make an NP or SP&S 4-6-2.
It looks very beautiful, and it runs quiet and smooth, with a minor lope in its low-speed running, but I don't think
it's a quartering or other issue.  I think it will smooth out after I run it for a few hours. (I have hardly run it at all)

Pulling is anemic because I have one without the traction tires (but I do have the TT driver to install eventually).
I will also put all-wheel trucks in the tender to avoid stalling problems.

Hard to say if it's "worth buying" for you.   I have a specific goal in mind and I know the shortcomings of
the engine, which I will fix. 

I only paid $60 for it new.  Given that it needs a tender pickup retrofit and will probably end up needing some wiring
fixup to address the way the headlight is powered, I'd say it's worth 60, but not more.

[delamaize]

I got one of these also, I like mine, although without the traction tire is is a weak puller. Mine is NP also, and I had planned on kit bashing it one of these days.

Traction tire is a must with this one, although, I have heard that this one is a good reason to have bullfrog snot on hand. I have not tried it myself yet though..

[absnut]

I own five of them and am happy with all but, compared to some fellow modelers, I may have incredibly low expectations!  One is very slippery-footed. One is a little noisy.  Three are relatively quiet runners and will pull four kit bashed 70' heavy-weights up a 3.5% grade.  None have traction tires and none have had tenders re-wired, although I can see the merit.  So far, mine have not proven problematical.  MT 1025 is a "drop in" fit on the rear tender truck, although it does extend the distance between the end of the tender and the next car.  Newer (streamlined) issues, I have been told, have traction tires.  If you can pick one up for $60 it would be a respectable deal, as Max says.

[Mark.S+10]

I have one and I liked it.  Bachmann tender so power pickup was good.  It wouldn't pull but about 12 cars up a 1% slope.  Not bad but not great.  Nice slow speed running but pretty noisy at high speed, sounded like an angry bee.  I decided to add the traction tire and ruined it.  Adding a traction tire is way more difficult than doing it on a Kato Mike.  Don't buy it without a traction tire already installed unless you have a flat layout.  Have fun, Mark.

[mmagliaro]

With all this discussion, I decided to pull mine apart and put the darn traction tire in it.
Mark (Spookshow)'s description of the cover plate and assembly of the MP steam as "diabolical" in his review is certainly accurate, but I knew this going in.   Unlike almost any other steam loco I have ever
worked on, on MP steam, you can't just pull the gear cover plate off to work on the
drivers or gears.   The cover plate has two bronze wiper strips integral to it, with power leads soldered to them, going up into the frame.  This is the worst assembly and wiring design I have ever seen.

Anyway, I clipped the two wires as I pulled off the cover plate (remember, I planned this).
I pulled out the crankpins on the rear drivers, lifted out the rear axle, dropped the new one in
with the traction tires on it, after carefully rotating it a few times as I dropped it in to get the
crankpin holes in the correct position to line up with the rods.

I then pulled the phosphor bronze strips out of the cover plate, and affixed them to the bottom
of the frame with some CA, and resoldered the two short wires to them. 

It took a good 2 hours to do this.  But anyway, it now pulls REALLY well.  I pulled 13 cars up a 1.7% curved grade without a hitch.  I'm sure it can pull a lot more; I just didn't test it.

Long story:
Short point:
The traction tire is a big plus.

[SkipGear]

I like these models although they are fairly fragile when it comes to the pickup and the drivers. Be careful with the drivers, the centers are engineering plastic and very soft. It is easy to deform them. When they are right, the loco's run smooth as silk.

One hint is to remove the spring on the pilot truck. It is not needed and more than likely is the cause of the lope that Max noticed.

The locos are geared very low. Because of that and the motor being mounted solidly in the metal boiler, at high speed, the motor resonates through the boiler and makes them noisy. Running them at sub warp speed, they are very quiet.

Traction tire is a must and there is more than one production out there with a tire. The last batch of streamlined units has the Traction tire driver already installed. I think there was a very small of standard locos that were released with a TT also. I have one Pacific with a factory installed traction tire that is not streamlined. It will pull over 40 cars on level track.

I like using the mechanism for kitbashes but I eliminate the factory boiler completely which helps with noise and makes it easier to service the motor.

[mmagliaro]

Thanks for the suggestion on the pilot truck spring, Tony.  I just removed it, but it doesn't help.
It really seems like a bind in the internal gearing.  There's a tight spot in every driver rotation, and when it hits that spot,
the rods are all still floppy and free, so it's not the quartering.  Other than that, it runs well.  And I've run it a few hours, so I
doubt that this tight spot is something that will work itself out.   Ah well... not to worry.  I'll eventually work on it inside
one day when I kitbash it into an NP or SP&S thingy.

I may have to eat my words and put a better motor in it after all.

[mmagliaro]

Ha ha... it was the quartering after all.  Stinker.  It slips in and out of quarter as it runs!
So any time I would check it at a supposed "tight spot", the rods would appear to not be binding.

Finally spotted it on its back on the bench.  So.... rotated the rear driver to correct spot, drops of green Loctite
all around, yep  it runs great now.   Okay... back to my other regularly scheduled project from this diversion.

[Chris333]

I remember these MP steamers don't have splines on the axles ends. They are polished and the wheels spin if you blow on it.

[mmagliaro]

I remember these MP steamers don't have splines on the axles ends. They are polished and the wheels spin if you blow on it.

Yep.  Very bad design.  On the other hand, they are easy to requarter, because you can do it with the whole
thing assembled and just line the drivers up by eye by turning them on the axles with your fingers.
It's all a question of how much you trust Loctite to really hold it all together when you're done.

[peteski]

If I have the entire running gear disassembled is to use a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool (use it as a grinding wheel) and I grind a small flat spot at each end of the axle (sometimes I even do it in the middle, if I also remove the gear.  Then using a new #11 knife blast I score multiple grooves inside the center hole of the wheels. Then I thoroughly degrease the axle and wheels and gear. Then I reassemble and quarted the drivers by eye (while installed in the loco for proper gear mesh.  Then I take them out of the loco and flow some extra thin CA glue around the axle ends and around the gear hole. The CA wicks into the flat spot in the axle and also into the grooves I scored inside the wheel's axle opening. That locks everything in  place pretty well.

[UP4-8-8-4]

    I have quite a few of their Standard Pacifics as well as their Semi-Streamlined ones.
Putting on the traction tire driver sets is fairly easy once you learn the tricks, but you can cut out the headaches by applying BullFrog Snot to the last set of drivers on both type engines.
If you have a slipping driver on an axle, once you requarter it and run at a slow speed and it runs smooth, apply a drop of Krazy Glue in the center of the axle using the tip of a round tooth pick. Have fixed quite a few using this method for others and all are still holding.




Ernie

[Lemosteam]

Is all of these same attributes true of the MP 4-4-0 design? I have another kit bash planned using one and I'd like to fix the running qualities first...

Ernie, would bfs be the best route to go on it too?  Not sure if the tt drivers are available fot it any longer. I wonder if it is the same driver as the 4-6-2?

[SkipGear]

Is all of these same attributes true of the MP 4-4-0 design? I have another kit bash planned using one and I'd like to fix the running qualities first...

Ernie, would bfs be the best route to go on it too?  Not sure if the tt drivers are available fot it any longer. I wonder if it is the same driver as the 4-6-2?

Yes, all the Model Power locos share a similar design. If you can fix one, you can fix them all. As far as traction tire, I don't want to start an argument but the traction tire is a far better solution than BFS. BFS works if there is no other option but the factory traction tire makes a much more impresive improvement. The Pacific chassis that I am using for my B&O P7 only has one single driver with a traction tire on it and will pull 30+ cars on level. It only has to pull 5 passenger cars when done.