1940s-'50s PRR steam used in freight service

[VonRyan]

Hi all, after having decided against buying a walther's berkshire, i'm now looking to start my steam roster with something more PRR specific.
What i model is the era from 1940 up to when steam and F3s would be running side by side.
My rolling stock is a mix of general freight stock as well as 40' wooden ice reefers.
What i'm looking is a loco that could be seen in eastern PA and in New Jersey hauling both general freight as well as strings of reefers.
In terms of a loco, I'd like it to be prototypical for its era/purpose.
I've no preference as to commercially available or kitbashed/scratchbuilt, but i think the overall unique aspect of a kitbashed/scratchbuilt loco is more valuable thus more of a selling point for me.
My budget is certainly not up to the prices of brass unless $$$ and actual value are not a big issue, thus i'm really be interested in having a loco made by one of the excellent builders here on the forum.
I plan to run the loco on DCC so space for a DZ125 is something to consider, i have the decoder on hand if the decoder can be installed during the process, but doesn't necessarily need to be since i might be able to have someone else install it.
To finish up my long drawl, my budget for this is $120, but at most i can scratch out $150.

Feel free to reply here with thoughts, contacts, ideas, etc and also feel free to PM me.

Many thanks to everyone for the assistance in the past, the present, and for your continued support in the future.

-Cody F.

[pennsyfan1361]

A  PRR H10sa 2-8-0 would be a good locomotive to do what you want to do. Dave Vollmer did a very nice job on his H10sa and in  NTRAK The N Scale Steam Locomotive Information Book  2007 Addendum he shows you how he made his. If you get  the loco and parts off of EBAY you should be able to do it in your budget.  Rich

[VonRyan]

A  PRR H10sa 2-8-0 would be a good locomotive to do what you want to do. Dave Vollmer did a very nice job on his H10sa and in  NTRAK The N Scale Steam Locomotive Information Book  2007 Addendum he shows you how he made his. If you get  the loco and parts off of EBAY you should be able to do it in your budget.  Rich

So far your the second one to recommend the H10sa that Dave Vollmer made.
Only question is was it used for reefer service as well as general manifest freights, i'm trying to get prototypical in terms of a type of loco that has been seen at least once in both services? Any photos would help as well.

Directed at the general public: all other suggestions are welcome, i'd like to get a reasonable field of options before making a decision.

-Cody F.

[Bob Bufkin]

2-8-0s were used mostly in drag and local freights in this time frame.  The M1 mountains usually did the honors in pulling hot merchandise and reefer trains.  Believe Dave also did an M1 conversion.  You mentioned Eastern PA.  Most track East of Harrisburg was electrified and the trains used electric power.  I know there are a bunch of branch lines which were non electrified in which you could run your steam.  Whatever you decide, have fun and it's nice to see another PRR fan here.

[VonRyan]

I probably should have mentioned that i also include a bit of eastern coal country in my modelling as well, which sets the western most extent, with New Jersey's atlantic coast being the eastern most border.

-Cody F.

[Lemosteam]

Mr. Bufkin is an excellent Pennsy expert, and you can find many more on the PRR N Scale yahoo group.  I find that technical, line specific questions are answered there as well.  You may want to join.  There are others there who may be willing to make a loco for you as well.  If you become a history buff as I did, you may wish to buy used copies of the Pennsy Porwer books, great pics and a wealth of info.  I model my locos from pics in those as best I can.

[eja]

Check out Don Ball's book The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s - 1950s

Should have exactly the info you are looking for.   Great colour photos too.

ISBN 0-393-02357-5

You can find used copies for ~$25.00 at http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=ISBN0393023575&sts=t

eja

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I think what you really want is a Kato Mike with the GHQ L1 conversion.

[Dave V]

Thanks for the props...!  What Ed said.  Actually, an L1s is probably the smallest engine you'll see on a reefer block.  Much more common was the not available in N scale M1.  I1s 2-10-0s were probably not used as often as they were consigned more to coal drags and low-priority merchandise as well as helper service and as humpers/trimmers.

[mmagliaro]

I think what you really want is a Kato Mike with the GHQ L1 conversion.

I was wondering why it took so long for somebody to suggest this..  LOL!

The L1s did a LOT of jobs, and it's medium-sized, so you won't have problems with curves, or with it
looking out of place if you have a small layout.

Info from:  "Pennsy Steam A To T", by Carleton:

The PRR built 574 of them, so you certainly will have a common and "typical" Pennsy engine.
Page 152 upper left, photo of an L1s pulling a reefer train, below that, pulling and empty string of hoppers,
upper right, parked next to 3 E7 passenger diesels, page 151: mixed freight.

And this was all in the 1940s and 1950s, when there certainly were lots of F3's on the rails.

With the GHQ kit, it will be over your budget.  But the engine alone won't.  You can get them for well under $150, and
they are worth every penny.   Add the traction tire... you MUST.
When budget allows, get the GHQ kit to make it a proper L1, and it will be as beautiful as it is functional.
The GHQ kit requires patience, but it produces a spectacular engine.

Hmmmm... there... have I gushed enough?   

[pennsyfan1361]

Why don't you do a H10sa for local runs and mine turns and use the F3 for the reefer hotshot.  An L1 would be a good all around engine the steam equal to a Diesel GP Jeep.  I think the H10sa would be a easier and less expensive to do than the L1 GHQ conversion unless you can get a good deal on a Kato Mike the GHQ conversion kit and the Kato replacement traction driver sometime not that easy to get.  Can you pin point the PRR area you are modeling? You said Eastern coal  country  in Pennsylvania to New Jersey that is a large area.  Is this going to be Proto-Lance? or PRR prototype modeling? An M1  would be good for General freight and hotshot merchandise and reefer trains, but they ran for the most part on the Middle Division and  the Northern Division in Pennsylvania.           Rich

[VonRyan]

Why don't you do a H10sa for local runs and mine turns and use the F3 for the reefer hotshot.  An L1 would be a good all around engine the steam equal to a Diesel GP Jeep.  I think the H10sa would be a easier and less expensive to do than the L1 GHQ conversion unless you can get a good deal on a Kato Mike the GHQ conversion kit and the Kato replacement traction driver sometime not that easy to get.  Can you pin point the PRR area you are modeling? You said Eastern coal  country  in Pennsylvania to New Jersey that is a large area.  Is this going to be Proto-Lance? or PRR prototype modeling? An M1  would be good for General freight and hotshot merchandise and reefer trains, but they ran for the most part on the Middle Division and  the Northern Division in Pennsylvania.           Rich

Well, the F3s are probably out of the question since they're the early 90s version and don't have provisions for DCC without requiring hard wiring and frame milling. Plus i only have enough money to put out for one loco since have a loco built probably is expensive, priority goes to steam since it is more appropriate for the 1940s and early 50s.
As for Prototype -V.S.- Proto-Lance, i'd like to try for prototypical, but if the options are slim it'll probably boarder on proto-lance.

Also, anyone have any experience with the Con-Cor USRA Heavy Mountain that comes with DCC/Sound?

-Cody F.

[pennsyfan1361]

Cody, I thought you had the F3s already, that why I said to use them for the reefer train. If you are looking for one steamer  an L1 or the M1 would do general freight and the reefer train. What Max recommended about doing the L1 conversion is a very good idea. And he is the master  at doing PRR steam locomotive, I love his work and is one of the reasons I even thought of doing PRR steam in n scale.  I saw on ebay the Kato mike going for $70.00, the traction driver for $10.00 if you can get them. Kato is out of stock on them and the GHQ L1 is $119.95 but they do run sale on them from time to time. I read that someone got a kit for around $50.00 on ebay. And if I remember right one Kato with the L1 conversion already  done went for $200.00. Regarding the Con-Cor USRA Heavy Mountain that comes with DCC/Sound do you mean the Bachmann Heavy Mountain that comes with DCC?                Rich

[VonRyan]

Cody, I thought you had the F3s already, that why I said to use them for the reefer train. If you are looking for one steamer  an L1 or the M1 would do general freight and the reefer train. What Max recommended about doing the L1 conversion is a very good idea. And he is one of the masters at doing PRR steam locomotive, I love his work and is one of the reason I even thought of doing PRR steam in n scale.  I saw on ebay the Kato mike going for $70.00, the traction driver for $10.00 if you can get them. Kato is out of stock on them and the GHQ L1 is $119.95 but they do run sale on them from time to time. I read that someone got a kit for around $50.00 on ebay. And if I remember right one Kato with the L1 conversion already  done went for $200.00. Regarding the Con-Cor USRA Heavy Mountain that comes with DCC/Sound do you mean the Bachmann Heavy Mountain that comes with DCC?                Rich

I have the F3s, but they don't have DCC. They're the old split frame mechs so it requires some mill work to be done.
As to the Con-Cor heavy mountain, it is not the newer bachmann model but indeed a Con-Cor PRR 2-10-2 with sound in the tender. Someone i know has one, albeit i never noticed it untill i decided to unwrap it from within its paper towel, but its a great looking loco and it came with micro trains installed. I have no clue how many were made, but i do know they stopped making them more than 5 years ago.
$200 for a kato with an L1 conversion is beyond my budget for sure. My budget of $140-$150 is if i am to shake out every dollar i have and that would only bring me to about $120-$130 and thus depends on my liquidating some unused kits and buildings.
There hasn't been anything on ebay lately, especially within my unfortunate constraints that i'm attempting to lessen, but such is.

More or less i'm trying to both, A: Find out what might be on the market within my budget or close enough that i can liquidate some excess; and B: See what others have done in terms of conversions/kitbashes/scratchbuilds and see if anyone would be able to do another (and be paid for their work of course) be it from some items i may already have lying around or can obtain within my budget with still some money leftover to be able to cover shipping of the completed loco as well as the work put in on the project.

-Cody F.

[Kiasutha]

Cody;
I think the confusion is your terminology.
A 2-10-2 is usually (always?) refered to as a "santa fe".