Dirty wheels

[Kirk Green]

I find that I constantly have to clean engine wheels and track on my layout.  Anyone else experience this?  Tks Kirk

[peteski]

Yes Kirk, periodic cleaning N-Scale locomotive wheels is just a part of regular layout maintenance.  Discussing track and wheel cleaning on forums is pretty much like discussing politics or religion. Everybody has lots of opinions and there is no one specific method everybody can agree works the best.

[bill pearce]

I know this will stir up the pot, but metal wheels don't collect crud like plastic ones. Except loco wheels, as the electricity going through them attracts crud.

[Kirk Green]

I have a door layout that is based on the carolina central.  May go a week in between  running any trains and I find that I am always cleaning track and engine wheels.  Layout is code 80 atlas track and turnouts.  I guess my question is do you all have to clean this regularly.  Thanks Kirk

[hpwrick]

Here we go:  Experience talking,

All metals oxidize, some more then others.   Oxidation can act as a insulator creating electrical contact problems between the locomotive and rails.
The older plastic  and metals wheels we played with in HO and N scale attracted tons of dirt.
Todays, Delrin Plastic wheels and Nickel Silver wheelsets attract less dirt, then  their predecessors.

Irregardless, of all the arguments out there:  Past and present, I've cleaned just as much dirt off metal wheels as I have plastic wheelsets.   The exception being.    MTL's Delrin plastic wheels tend to repel the dirt as does the newer nickelsilver wheelsets.    Interesting to note, is the nickel silver track tends to stay cleaner longer then the old brass rails. 

All dirt is attracted by the negative Ion, positive Ion thing,  called in some professional circles as Environmental Build-Up.   

The answer is, vigilance at maintaining the wheelsets and track.    The environment my layout is housed in , a tin shed that isn't insulated or weatherized...yet!  I pretty much have to clean the track everytime I operate trains.    I do not recommend housing your layout in any kind of a shed, garage and/or barn.    The dirtiest places possible.

Every so often I will spot a car limping along much like the ones on the 1X1 foot scale, with a flat wheel.    That's when I know it's time to clean the wheels.   Wheelsets get a twice a year cleaning whether they need it or not.   They need it.    More often as not, yep... and they do.

I hope that helps.

[BCR751]

Someone on this list mentioned they use stainless steel to burnish the rail heads.  It apparently keeps oxidation to a minimum.  I would like to know how the stainless is applied to the rails and what is used to do it.  Will the person who posted that please sound off?

Doug

[hpwrick]

I'ma not the guy BCR751 is looking for.   No, I'ma not the resident expert...I'll leave that to others here.    Just my two cents from the What It's Worth Department via the Voice of Experience.

A product called No/Ox will reduces the problems we have with oxidation, gunk and electrical contact.   Did I mention?  Improving the electrical contact between rails and locomotive wheelsets.

Not sure, I would recommend any of the stainless steel cleaners.    These would be applied with a rag but, has a high solvent level that can actually work against you.   The same could be said about Goo Gone, WD40 and/or Wahl Clipper Oil.   These solvent based cleaners and/or detergents leave a residual that can attract dirt.   The positive and negative Ion thing.

Highly recommended,  polishing the rail heads and that can be done a number of ways.    My favorite is a Masonite pad.    A homemade track cleaning product that cost little and goes a long way.   You will replace the masonite pad long before you see a need to replace the rails.   Virtually harmless.

I've cleaned the rails by using Isopropyl Alcohol.    It doesn't leave a residual and appears to penetrate and lift, a interesting mix of oils, dirt and dust (Environmental Build-Up) or after it's all been stirred together (not shaken) via the wheel action, you end up with a mess that I call Gunk.    Think about it, the fact that most of us use various light oils and lubes to lubricate our locomotives or the bearings in the wheelsets.    This will eventually find it's way to the top of the rails.    What we need to do is lift and remove the oil and the all to familiar mix of dust, which turns into gunk or better said environmental build-up.

What do I do?    I have a track cleaning train that is made up with a spondge padded car in the lead, two locomotives, a car follows in behind  with a  masonite pad.   The first car has a sponge pad with alchohol applied to it, the alcohol breaks up the dried gunk.     The car following behind the loco's with the masonite pad,  it picks-up the gunk,  dries and polishes the rail heads.     It's a great combination but requires hours of servicing and mainteance to be effective.

Bonus, you ought to check out the wheel sets of the locomotives after following the alcohol cleaning car.    Did you just say duel purpose?

I clean the absorbent sponge pad by applying alcohol to a rag and dap it off.  Dirty?   If you think it doesn't work try cleaning it.    The masonite pad can be cleaned with sand paper.  Gosh, I'm not sure which one works better.   Takes forever to clean.  Sound simple?    Yes Kirk...there is a Santa Claus...ahh...I mean...It is simple.    Sort of.

Sand paper?  NO!   That removes the finish on the rails.   The only exception I would make.... if you happen to overspray the rails with paint.   Then you need to finish by polishing the rails.   It would be a better idea not to overspray the track. 

In extreme cases, I take a rag and wipe the rail heads down.

Lot's of luck!

[Zox]

Sand paper?  NO!   That removes the finish on the rails.

This is contrary to my experience. Aside from Micro-Engineering's weathered products, I have yet to see N-scale rail that has any sort of finish/coating/plating on it. It's a uniform material clear through, which is apparent when you cut it.

Our modular club habitually uses fine sanding sponges from Harbor Freight to clean the track, to good effect and with no apparent damage or significant wear to the rails.

[peteski]

I guess my question is do you all have to clean this regularly.  Thanks Kirk

A resounding "yes!".

As far as Rick's explanations go, I would take it wit a grain of salt. Or is it gunk? 
Zox already explained one of the "facts" that rails have finish on them is not quite correct.  Rails are solid nickel-silver.  Rick also swore that he had some brass N-scale rails but we won't go any further into that. 

Pure isopropyl alcohol should leave no residue. This can be tested by placing a drop on a piece of clean glass and letting it evaporate. There shouldn't be anything left on the glass. If there is residue after cleaning with alcohol, that means hatever was on the rails was not fully removed with the cleaning.

I think the stainless steel thing mentioned here might be the "gleam method" described on the Atlas forum. It was using a stainless steel washer rubbed against the rails to burnish the rail heads.

I'm not a fan of coating the rail heads with any sort of oily substance (like NoOx). That seems to attract even more dirt to the rails and wheels.

Lastly, see what I mean about asking this type of question stirring the pot? 

[robert3985]

As has been pointed out in several track-cleaning threads on various boards, No-Ox is only criticized by those who have never used it.

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

[rickb773]

On my old railroad 18'x19' layout (http://myrrlayout.com/R/Aspfiles/Det..._Code=20001280) I used the Wahl's Clipper Oil method. I cleaned the rails maybe 2 times in 5 years. I used a bright boy followed by small rag applications of Wahl's spaced out over distances followed by running trains to spread the stuff around. I have no idea why it worked it just did and did it well. This was in a relatively dirty basement environment. I did wallboard the ceiling and paint the concrete walls and floor but it was still a dirty basement.

The first time I did it, I did apply too much and initially some of my trains arriving at the station resembled a fast runner sliding home trying to avoid the tag! Once I got the hang of it I had no trouble with dirt and a pair of sharks had no trouble with 40 cars and 1-2% grades. I would also run the trains a couple of times per week which probably helped.

[kalbert]

I have a door layout that is based on the carolina central.

Got any pictures of your Carolina Central? I like to see other peoples interpretation of the same basic design. There are probably others here that would like to see it too! It's interesting to see what people do to make it their own.

[hpwrick]

Uh oh,   Peteski and Rick are at it again.   LOL

Yep, I still sware that some of the older Minitrix, (and one other I haven't been able to identify...yet)    N Scale sectional track is brass.   You'll have to explain to me why it 's turning green.   Why, I'ma constantly having to clean it.   Young Pete, wants me to remove it from the layout and send him photos.     I'm not tearing up my layout just to see who made it.    Maybe later, when I finally get angry enough, I will remove it.   For now it sits as part of a dead end industrial spur...causing me little to no grief.   

As far as alcohol leaving a residual, I would agree with Pete that by itself, no.    If you have oil that isn't  completely lifted and removed via the cleaning process.... then the two mixed with dust and dirt tends to make an unusual mess, I refer to as Gunk.  Or as professioals in various circles, refer to it as EBU (Environmental Build-Up)  .   Sticky stuff that most of you are likely removing from your wheels.

Now Pete, he speaks with authority and is one of our resident...well...you know!   Has a memory like an elephant and won't let go of anything.   I would suggest you take him with a little pepper,  Dr. Pepper.   What you add to the drink and how you swissel it, is up to you. Grin.    Let's see salt with Tequilla and Dr. Pepper with a splash of Vodka.

What you doing Pete, I felt that, quit stomping the ground.    Seriously, we just had an earthquake.    Mild rolling but I suspect it to be a good one coming at us from the south.   Yep, a 3.5 but not enough to cause a whole lot of damage.   Surprised I felt it.

In reference to N Scale rails having a finish.    They are polished off to a very fine finish.   Scratch them and you will find out, rather quickly, how dirt can collect and cause you problems...SA....ahh...ASAP.

Now what was this BS about the information I shared being, Gunk?   Let your own experience, which some don't seem to have here, be your teacher.   Yep, he sure do like to stir the pot and throw them zingers.    You just have to give some folks time to make their own mistakes and grow into and out of the same pitfalls and mistakes we've all made.   

Ok, professor Pete does that get'r done?.   We's good.

[Kirk Green]

Kyle, I wouldn't have any idea how to post pics.  Tks Kirk

[hpwrick]

I'd like to see some pictures but like you, I have no idea how to do that here.

When you do get it figured out start a new thread and let's see what's happening.