gluing down track ballast

[DKS]

I find that also.I'd never do it in one step,it doesn't come out as nice,the ballast takes a little longer to soak it up,makes it do goofy things..Also,since I use the same 93% alcohol I use for stripping paint off shells,I dilute it at least 50% with water,and I do add maybe 10% to the glue/water mix.

I've never found a one-step solution that worked anywhere near as well as the two-step. If I have areas where the ballast is particularly deep, which can sometimes lead to "blowouts" while vacuuming, I'll add some alcohol to the glue/water mixture to help it sink in deeper.

I used to spray on the alcohol, but lately I've found that if you apply it along the rails with a dropper (I use a small plastic squeeze bottle), it works just fine. To save time, I mix large-ish batches of glue and water and store it in a well-sealed bottle. I'll then transfer it from there to a small squeeze bottle for application.

[MVW]

I'll have to chime in in defense of Paul's comment above. I've done the two-step process, and I've added alcohol directly to the water-glue mixture to make it a one-step application. I haven't encountered any problems with one-step.

For those having problems, maybe you need to bump up the percentage of alcohol in your water-glue mix.

Or not. It doesn't really matter what method you use. The biggest epiphany I've had in this hobby is this: Gather as much advice as possible, then let experience tell you what works best for you.

Jim

[Flatrat]

...The biggest epiphany I've had in this hobby is this: Gather as much advice as possible, then let experience tell you what works best for you.

Jim

I definitely agree with that statement. When I get to gluing ballast I will try different methods until i find the one that works best for me at my house.

[VonRyan]

I definitely agree with that statement. When I get to gluing ballast I will try different methods until i find the one that works best for me at my house.

I agree with the agreeing going on. I've been using 3-5 drops of joy into water in my $1 spray bottle that holds what equates to about 4/5 of what is in a standard water bottle. I probably need to try the alcohol, but since i'm mostly scenicing N-Trak modules, i'm worried about robustness since i use alcohol to remove ballast and track so i'm a bit skeptical on its effectiveness as to enable better bonding to prevent loss of ballast in rough handling and more importantly in transit in the club trailer since that can be less forgiving than human hands...

-Cody F.

[Scottl]

The alcohol is just to break the water tension and allow it to be distributed via capillary.  It does not bind or aid in binding of the ballast beyond that function.

[Bendtracker1]

....It doesn't really matter what method you use. The biggest epiphany I've had in this hobby is this: Gather as much advice as possible, then let experience tell you what works best for you.

Jim

+1
To clarify my earlier post, it's NOT the only way or the best way to ballast track, but it's what works for me.
Here is a video that I'm sure has been posted here before, it's a nice how to.  It also has a nice little trick at the end for weathering your ballast if you so desire.

http://vimeo.com/15983976

The only thing I do a little different is to spray or mist the "Wetting Agent" on instead of using a needle as shown in the video.

BTW Diezmon, I like the idea of using windsheild washer fluid instead of Alcohol.  That's the same idea that Mr. Hinshaw used for his Fading Fast technique!

See, you learn something new everyday!     I need to try this the next time I start on ballasting.

[DKS]

For those having problems, maybe you need to bump up the percentage of alcohol in your water-glue mix.

I have a feeling it may have more to do with the type of ballast being used. Each of the various types behaves differently and so may respond to the single-application with varying degrees of success.

...I like the idea of using windsheild washer fluid instead of Alcohol...

I'd like to know what advantage windshield washing fluid has over alcohol. I'm not being argumentative, here; I'm genuinely curious to understand what's going on that's different.

[bill pearce]

Windshield washer fluid also acts as anti-freeze for the system in winter, and at least at one time it was a mix of alcohol and water, so it might work as well as alcohol, but beware of changes in formulas and dilutions. It shouldn't be advantageous, just the same, although I suspect that the cost difference between washer fluid and quart bottles of 90% rubbing alcohol, which are frequently on sale would favor the alcohol, as you are not paying for as much water. I found the use of a fne mister is best for application of alcohol to ballast is better with ARM real rock ballast as it is less apt to disturb the nice profiles. I have found the old use of dishwashing detergent to be absolutely useless for fine N scale ballast. I have also tried using Kodak Photo-Flo, and industrial strength wetting agent used in commercial photo finishing and found it wanting, but it's probably gone now.

Bill Pearce

[MVW]

I have a feeling it may have more to do with the type of ballast being used. Each of the various types behaves differently and so may respond to the single-application with varying degrees of success.

Excellent point, David. So far, I've just used Woodland Scenics ballast. Last night I started laying down a mixture of WS and Arizona Rock and Mineral products. I spread a couple feet of ballast last night, and hope to get it glued down tonight. It will be interesting to see if there's any difference.

Jim

[GaryHinshaw]

The blue washer fluid contains methanol, so it's probably serving the same function as isopropanol (rubbing alcohol).

FWIW, I pretty much follow DKS's original method: in my case I spray the alcohol, dropper in matte medium and leave.  With real rock ballast (e.g. Scenic Express/Smith & Sons or Arizona Rock & Mineral) there is almost no shifting of grains during the process.  With the matte medium, I make very sure it has no lumps before I use it (shake & stir well).  White glue is fine too.

-gfh

P.S. I'm one of those oddballs who actually enjoys shaping ballast... Maybe I should take up buddhist sand painting.   

[Flatrat]

windshield washer fluid has numerous formulations but most of them are a mixture or solvents or alcohols and with a bit of detergent so it would seem to me that mixing up a jar of water, rubbing alcohol and a drop of two of laundry detergent would pretty much yield the same product. That way you are using both alcohol AND detergent so i guess it would cover both proposed methods pretty effectively.

[Bendtracker1]

I'd like to know what advantage windshield washing fluid has over alcohol. I'm not being argumentative, here; I'm genuinely curious to understand what's going on that's different.

As Bill posted: "It shouldn't be advantageous, just the same"  It might only serve as a substitute.

It would act as a wetting agent just like Alcohol, Gary uses it to help the Fade formula flow.
It might not have as strong as a smell to it like the alcohol has but you would also need to be careful as it has methanol in the ingredients.

I think the alcohol would be a safer bet, but like I said, windshield fluid could be used as a substitute. 

[DKS]

P.S. I'm one of those oddballs who actually enjoys shaping ballast... Maybe I should take up buddhist sand painting.

You're not alone; I enjoy ballasting as well. But I'm sure we're in a distinct minority, based on the grumbling so often heard about the topic.

[PAL_Houston]

Let me add that there are situations where I believe the 2 step wetting-then-gluing method is best: generally this is in areas where you need large expanses of fthin, flat ballast, and where the divots would ruin the effects you are trying to obtain.  I have some of these areas on my layout (that remain to be ballasted) and I will definitely use the 2-step method there. 

In the situation of ballasting track, I use the one-step method.  I put down the glue + isopropyl mix between the tracks and between the ties, and let it diffuse underneath the rails.  Once the mixture wets the volume of ballast outside the rails then you can add enough additional mix to finish the job.  Or, you can apply the mix to the outside of the rails between the ties and still not generate divots or slumps in many cases, UNLESS the angle of repose is high or you try to put down too much of the glue+isopropyl mix down too fast.

[Chris333]

Go 2 step, go 2 step.